EC15B heavy start

[Fleety]

It will allow a passage of fluid from the Pport to The T port ( pressure and tank) until the arm rest is lowered which then energises the valve blocking the flow from P to T allowing pressure to build

[Mattir]

It will allow a passage of fluid from the Pport to The T port ( pressure and tank) until the arm rest is lowered which then energises the valve blocking the flow from P to T allowing pressure to build

Yes, thanks. Confirms my theory, but got another piece of information regarding this. This is for the pilot pressure and thus affects the power circuits only indirectly.

But what is confirmed that the valve is energized when starting and that is adequate for troubleshooting. The solenoid coil resistance measurement would give an idea whether the circuit is ok. In case there is very low ohm value, the fuse will blow and then we know what to do.

The relief valve is solenoid controlled and as it removes all pilot pressure from the other valves, they have no change in changing state.

I will now try to locate the wires to the valve and measure. After that will condsider opening hydraulic circuits to get access to the solenoid. It is going to be fun in 15m/s wind, rain and +1C

[Fleety]

Another thing to consider is that your main spool valves should be open center, meaning that they should allow all fluid to go from P to T on every slice of the main spool valve until a service is put into operation. Only then should you get any pressure build up.

I have seen hammer line pedals siezed or stuck down which will start to bog down an engine when another service is operated.

But I've never seen starting problems from hydraulic faults

However, this is only "general" info as I've never worked on or looked at the hyd circuit if a ec15b

[Mattir]

Yes,

Hammer / bucket tilt can be checked, but the main valve block is a good suspect as well. One of the valves might suffer from a dead spring and that would then leave the valve spool somewhere out of the mid position. Actually that might be a more probable reason but it can be linked to the servo, as the pressure that now remains in the servo circuit while starting mighty give a false push to one of the spools.

[Muz]

The solenoid is on a separate square block , to the right of the main valve block as you look in through the door ... it sits on a stem with the double speed travel solenoid on top of it (or side) ... (if your machine is so equipped)

As I'm a fan of checking the simple stuff first TBH your battery sounds flat ! or the starter isnt getting enough power either directly... or by a poor earth

[Mattir]

The solenoid is on a separate square block , to the right of the main valve block as you look in through the door ... it sits on a stem with the double speed travel solenoid on top of it (or side) ... (if your machine is so equipped)

As I'm a fan of checking the simple stuff first TBH your battery sounds flat ! or the starter isnt getting enough power either directly... or by a poor earth

Tnx,

checked the starter power and it is 1,6kW and to deliver that we need to supply 1600/11=145A. I have a clamp ammeter and will test this. The starting attempt was with 2,5 m long car jumper cables, that have some resistance, but is it too much, is easy to test with the ammeter. Will try starting without the cables with the battery in its cave. That will also reveal ruthlessly any poor connection.

Tested the battery with a shortcircuited wire and it delivered over 200A which is the max reading of the ammeter. The battery should be ok imho.

[Muz]

The starting attempt was with 2,5 m long car jumper cables,

That will be your problem right there

Tested the battery with a shortcircuited wire and it delivered over 200A which is the max reading of the ammeter. The battery should be ok imho.

Yeah but its whats getting to the starter connection post that counts

Get a fresh battery and connect it, if that doesn't cure it, then start fumbling around with all the other mumbo jumbo, and I dont bother with the shitty green thumb paddle on the battery earth wire either, get an M8 or M10 nut on that earth,... and run it up good

[Mattir]

That will be your problem right there


Yeah but its whats getting to the starter connection post that counts

Get a fresh battery and connect it, if that doesn't cure it, then start fumbling around with all the other mumbo jumbo, and I dont bother with the shitty green thumb paddle on the battery earth wire either, get an M8 or M10 nut on that earth,... and run it up good

Well, the vast majority of the amperes (like 98%) runs through the starter circuit and as the current does not disappear anywhere, the same amount that leaves the +-terminal returns to the battery minus-terminal. I can make another video on the measurement in case it would be useful for someone here . Have been thinking of installing a proper mains switch (350A) and replace the green mickey mouse with a proper nut as you suggest

The mumbo jumbo ( LMAO) theory is being discussed at the local Volvo-specialist, but ofcourse would be more than happy to just put a fresh battery and fire away :)

[Mattir]

some progress

Hi all,

what has happended so far is that I have dismantled the fuel tank, muffler, air filter and some fuel hoses. This all was needed to take away the starter for testing. The tests show that we have a faulty starter solenoid and possible a short circuit somewhere as well. Will order new starter and that should take all my troubles away. Well, some troubles might remain...

Thats how the landscape looks like now:
49A57FBA-27C0-46EC-9FCD-80B11B4D34DA[1].jpg
Will have to construct something to prevent birds or mice to start building their winter home in the cylinder either through the open inlet or exhaust

Muz: The hydraulics seems ok, so you were right there, tnx :)

[Muz]

Never had a starter 'partially fail' ? they are are always either working perfectly, or totally gubbed ... and the main reason ive had for failure is when the main starter relay remains energised after start causing the starter to remain engaged whilst the engine is running .. which will burn the starter out in 5 minutes .. then the machine is completely immobilised on a site wherever it stops ... if you are lucky you get one shot at seeing this when the main 50 amp fuse blows under the seat ... if you replace that thinking it was a one off.. youve just missed your warning shot

[Mattir]

Never had a starter 'partially fail' ? they are are always either working perfectly, or totally gubbed ... and the main reason ive had for failure is when the main starter relay remains energised after start causing the starter to remain engaged whilst the engine is running .. which will burn the starter out in 5 minutes .. then the machine is completely immobilised on a site wherever it stops ... if you are lucky you get one shot at seeing this when the main 50 amp fuse blows under the seat ... if you replace that thinking it was a one off.. youve just missed your warning shot

So far what I have analyzed, is that the solenoid is not engaging the main contacts and therefore nothing happens, but will retest it. I quess this starter has done its's job as the machine has over 3400 hrs on it. 8 hr days that would be some 400 starts, but probably a lot more. What I suspect is a short circuit somewhere. But as the starter is only some 150€ delivered at your door, will put a new one.

[Mattir]

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So far what I have analyzed, is that the solenoid is not engaging the main contacts and therefore nothing happens, but will retest it. I quess this starter has done its's job as the machine has over 3400 hrs on it. 8 hr days that would be some 400 starts, but probably a lot more. What I suspect is a short circuit somewhere. But as the starter is only some 150€ delivered at your door, will put a new one.

Tested it. Solenoid pops out fine but does not connect. Cant be repaired as it is pressed. New one ordered from Holdwell.

[Mattir]

Heavy start issue solved

Installed the new starter today. Pretty easy after all dismantling. Started easily and all the hydraulics work properly as well.

The old starter most likely had some sort of a shortcircuit in the windings as it draw a LOT of current but nothing actually happened.

The EC15 is now ready for the summer activity or in case we will get a lot of snow, it will help me in clearing all that.