Well that's me hit 500 hours!

[Wee Jim]

Well gentlemen I though I would share my experiences of my JCB that I have had for 13 months and clocked up 500 hours in. The clock now has 1500 hours total. Since I bought it at the start of September 2011 I have had the tracks replaced after less than 4 hours of having it as they were knackered and Scot JCB replaced the one that flew to bits and I replaced the other so they were the same. Not long after that the left hand control became slack and rattled about so the bolts holding it in place had to be replaced with nuts and bolts and metal plates under the floor to keep it tight. The blade kept retracting when under load so it had to get a new valve fitted but tis slow as hell to come back up. The main casting has broken and been welded twice now (see other thread) and the twin speed tracking has stopped working and just goes fast all the time! To be honest I am thinking of getting rid of it soon and I might get another one the same but if its going t be problematic I will look else where! He hitachi I had clocked up over 2500 hours and old ever needed hoses and I tipped it 3 times! I though I would share with you guys my experiences of my last 590 hours!

[jackpreacher]

Hello Jim. I really hope you get some value out of it before you flog it - Murphy's law states that "..once sold on, someone else enjoys your machine without any more problems..EVER..".

J

[Stock]

ain't that just so but then the jake quality is so far behind the oriental makes it's not funny.

[Rob-b]

Oh dear weejim, hassles we just don't need and expect. The trouble is it's just a business thing to them whilst try to balance quality with the need to replace parts to sustain a healthy turn over. Who knows what's wrong or right? right for the economy but one things for sure the Asian machines will cotton on eventually.

I worked for the Nissan plant in Sunderland when it started as porta cabins in 1985 and worked through the ranks for 15 years, in my time there it was quality not quantity and anyone who owned a Nissan Bluebird or the first and second series Premeras will hopefully back my statement as excellent quality cars.

Then came the French (Renault) who bought 30% stake and the reverse happened over night, yes quantity not quality because the product was lasting too well and not enough scrappage. The trouble is they went too far and the brand is a Datsun again, but my point is the Japs embrased this ethos to their disgrace in my view, but what happened was the company went from negative profit to huge profits in two years.

There's is a cleverly worked out business model that dictates that businesses concentrate on a product life span based on percieved value for money and build their products to suit. They build in what they call a squeak factor (complaint ratio) of a certain percentage usually around 10% which if they exceed more than 10 complaints in every 100 products sold, they look at what is causing the complaint. If they don't get complaints they look at why their vehicles don't break down resulting in lost profit for parts.


You could say it is swings and roundabouts, I am not experienced in plant machinery in any way but would imagine that JCB parts are quite reasonable to that of Volvo, Hitachi or Kubota for instance? I don't know, it's also my guess the latter machines don't break down as much but to replace a part is astronomical? where as JCB are less so with a huge dealer network back up. It's like buying a Ford knowing the parts are cheap to replace to that of buying an VW or Audi half knowing that they don't break down, but when they do you sh!t yourself at the cost of repairs.

Good and bad in everything, sometimes lucky sometimes unlucky.


But no consolation Weejim, sorry to hear yourr doesn't appear to be one of the good ones.

[Muz]

Oh dear weejim, hassles we just don't need and expect. The trouble is it's just a business thing to them whilst try to balance quality with the need to replace parts to sustain a healthy turn over. Who knows what's wrong or right? right for the economy but one things for sure the Asian machines will cotton on eventually.

I worked for the Nissan plant in Sunderland when it started as porta cabins in 1985 and worked through the ranks for 15 years, in my time there it was quality not quantity and anyone who owned a Nissan Bluebird or the first and second series Premeras will hopefully back my statement as excellent quality cars.

Then came the French (Renault) who bought 30% stake and the reverse happened over night, yes quantity not quality because the product was lasting too well and not enough scrappage. The trouble is they went too far and the brand is a Datsun again, but my point is the Japs embrased this ethos to their disgrace in my view, but what happened was the company went from negative profit to huge profits in two years.

There's is a cleverly worked out business model that dictates that businesses concentrate on a product life span based on percieved value for money and build their products to suit. They build in what they call a squeak factor (complaint ratio) of a certain percentage usually around 10% which if they exceed more than 10 complaints in every 100 products sold, they look at what is causing the complaint. If they don't get complaints they look at why their vehicles don't break down resulting in lost profit for parts.


You could say it is swings and roundabouts, I am not experienced in plant machinery in any way but would imagine that JCB parts are quite reasonable to that of Volvo, Hitachi or Kubota for instance? I don't know, it's also my guess the latter machines don't break down as much but to replace a part is astronomical? where as JCB are less so with a huge dealer network back up. It's like buying a Ford knowing the parts are cheap to replace to that of buying an VW or Audi half knowing that they don't break down, but when they do you sh!t yourself at the cost of repairs.

Good and bad in everything, sometimes lucky sometimes unlucky.


But no consolation Weejim, sorry to hear yourr doesn't appear to be one of the good ones.

The Bluebird was indeed a quality motor Rob ... much like the revamped Skoda (now Audi) of today it was an accomplished machine and many taxi drivers testified to that

Is the gist of your argument though, that manufacturers need to build in 'obselecence' to survive ? and therefor that a good brand (say BMW) will deliberately use a substandard component in its manufacture to support its dealer network earnings ? by way of recalls and faults ?

For the record .. as far as excavators go .. Ive owned many different makes ... and some parts are extortionate with all the brands, regardless of who makes them.

If a manufacturer knows their product has a weak spot .. they tend to price the parts more competitively for that failure IMHO so as to deflect that product weakness and improve its 'apparent ' standing in the marketplace

So if you buy a cutting edge product and something fails and warranty wont cover it .. you will pay... but once the supply chain becomes evident,... the fast movers come down in price.

My proof ? On a trade fair one year a few years back ..... A curved door for a Kubota U-35 when they first came out £2000 ... a quick visit to a Komatsu dealer opposite, with the same door £800 (it pays to be observant ) and the Kubota dealer knocked a thousand off his price there and then

I agree with some of your comment though ... these days some components are built to a life cyle .. and once its done its done .. but its a crap philosophy, because if a manufacturer wants a reputation that can take years to get, it only takes months to lose .. dont mean to down the product .. again .. but JCB should stick to some core products and do them well instead of spreading their wares too thinly ... Their only salvation is that some have had the 'Big Yellow' injection and are customers for life ... poor people .. but hey ? theyre not alone ... its the same with modern landrover owners ... well its their money

[Stock]

The Bluebird was indeed a quality motor Rob ... much like the revamped Skoda (now Audi) of today it was an accomplished machine and many taxi drivers testified to that

Is the gist of your argument though, that manufacturers need to build in 'obselecence' to survive ? and therefor that a good brand (say BMW) will deliberately use a substandard component in its manufacture to support its dealer network earnings ? by way of recalls and faults ?

For the record .. as far as excavators go .. Ive owned many different makes ... and some parts are extortionate with all the brands, regardless of who makes them.

If a manufacturer knows their product has a weak spot .. they tend to price the parts more competitively for that failure IMHO so as to deflect that product weakness and improve its 'apparent ' standing in the marketplace

So if you buy a cutting edge product and something fails and warranty wont cover it .. you will pay... but once the supply chain becomes evident,... the fast movers come down in price.

My proof ? On a trade fair one year a few years back ..... A curved door for a Kubota U-35 when they first came out £2000 ... a quick visit to a Komatsu dealer opposite, with the same door £800 (it pays to be observant ) and the Kubota dealer knocked a thousand off his price there and then

I agree with some of your comment though ... these days some components are built to a life cyle .. and once its done its done .. but its a crap philosophy, because if a manufacturer wants a reputation that can take years to get, it only takes months to lose .. dont mean to down the product .. again .. but JCB should stick to some core products and do them well instead of spreading their wares too thinly ... Their only salvation is that some have had the 'Big Yellow' injection and are customers for life ... poor people .. but hey ? theyre not alone ... its the same with modern landrover owners ... well its their money

Always considered the Bluebird to be an underpowered gas guzzler but a better car than the BMW. I'm a bigger fan of the mid 90's langer rodents........

[245dlc]

Hey Jim sorry to hear about your problems with your little digger, I imagine your looking at different brands now? That Deere/Hitachi 3 tonner I ran a couple weeks ago had around 2000 hours on the meter and still had lots of power in it and didn't seem to skip a beat working in that heavy sticky clay, I would of liked a longer stick on it as I was just about maxed out for digging depth and reach but it got the job done in a timely manner. The only differences it had from the Hitachi machine was paint and decals other wise everything was the same. Oh and it seemed to be pretty good on fuel too.

[jackpreacher]

Oh dear weejim, hassles we just don't need and expect. The trouble is it's just a business thing to them whilst try to balance quality with the need to replace parts to sustain a healthy turn over. Who knows what's wrong or right? right for the economy but one things for sure the Asian machines will cotton on eventually.

I worked for the Nissan plant in Sunderland when it started as porta cabins in 1985 and worked through the ranks for 15 years, in my time there it was quality not quantity and anyone who owned a Nissan Bluebird or the first and second series Premeras will hopefully back my statement as excellent quality cars.

Then came the French (Renault) who bought 30% stake and the reverse happened over night, yes quantity not quality because the product was lasting too well and not enough scrappage. The trouble is they went too far and the brand is a Datsun again, but my point is the Japs embrased this ethos to their disgrace in my view, but what happened was the company went from negative profit to huge profits in two years.

There's is a cleverly worked out business model that dictates that businesses concentrate on a product life span based on percieved value for money and build their products to suit. They build in what they call a squeak factor (complaint ratio) of a certain percentage usually around 10% which if they exceed more than 10 complaints in every 100 products sold, they look at what is causing the complaint. If they don't get complaints they look at why their vehicles don't break down resulting in lost profit for parts.

Anyone who has ever worked in a design office or as part of a design team knows that design faults are found after testing programs - which are expensive - so if a design flaw is discovered just before production starts the engineers have to either redesign or bodge a workaround. A classic example is the old Hillman Imp from the 1960's. Just as production was about to start it was realised that the sidelights were below the minimum legal height regulations. So, what was the solution? Raising the lights to a new level on the front bodywork? No, it was to raise the whole of the front suspension, hence the Imp gained a terrible 'bow-legged' look from the front. One can't invent better stories than this!

hillman imp.jpg

[Stock]

Anyone who has ever worked in a design office or as part of a design team knows that design faults are found after testing programs - which are expensive - so if a design flaw is discovered just before production starts the engineers have to either redesign or bodge a workaround. A classic example is the old Hillman Imp from the 1960's. Just as production was about to start it was realised that the sidelights were below the minimum legal height regulations. So, what was the solution? Raising the lights to a new level on the front bodywork? No, it was to raise the whole of the front suspension, hence the Imp gained a terrible 'bow-legged' look from the front. One can't invent better stories than this!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]969[/ATTACH]

Feckin engineers solution .............that no common sense approach....... here another similar engineering story..............don't know how true it is......

A toothpaste factory had a problem: they sometimes shipped empty boxes, without the tube inside. This was due to the way the production line was set up, and people with experience in designing production lines will tell you how difficult it is to have everything happen with timings so precise that every single unit coming out of it is perfect 100% of the time. Small variations in the environment (which can’t be controlled in a cost-effective fashion) mean you must have quality assurance checks smartly distributed across the line so that customers all the way down the supermarket don’t get pissed off and buy someone else’s product instead.
Understanding how important that was, the CEO of the toothpaste factory got the top people in the company together and they decided to start a new project, in which they would hire an external engineering company to solve their empty boxes problem, as their engineering department was already too stretched to take on any extra effort.
The project followed the usual process: budget and project sponsor allocated, RFP, third-parties selected, and six months (and $8 million) later they had a fantastic solution — on time, on budget, high quality and everyone in the project had a great time. They solved the problem by using some high-tech precision scales that would sound a bell and flash lights whenever a toothpaste box weighed less than it should. The line would stop, and someone had to walk over and yank the defective box out of it, pressing another button when done.
A while later, the CEO decides to have a look at the ROI of the project: amazing results! No empty boxes ever shipped out of the factory after the scales were put in place. Very few customer complaints, and they were gaining market share. “That’s some money well spent!” – he says, before looking closely at the other statistics in the report.
It turns out, the number of defects picked up by the scales was 0 after three weeks of production use. It should’ve been picking up at least a dozen a day, so maybe there was something wrong with the report. He filed a bug against it, and after some investigation, the engineers come back saying the report was actually correct. The scales really weren’t picking up any defects, because all boxes that got to that point in the conveyor belt were good.
Puzzled, the CEO travels down to the factory, and walks up to the part of the line where the precision scales were installed. A few feet before it, there was a $20 desk fan, blowing the empty boxes out of the belt and into a bin. “Oh, that — one of the guys put it there ’cause he was tired of walking over every time the bell rang”, says one of the workers

[Rob-b]

Puzzled, the CEO travels down to the factory, and walks up to the part of the line where the precision scales were installed. A few feet before it, there was a $20 desk fan, blowing the empty boxes out of the belt and into a bin. “Oh, that — one of the guys put it there ’cause he was tired of walking over every time the bell rang”, says one of the workers

Hehe class, there are many stories as the one with the wheel barrows etc.

It's things like engine life, component life, nut and bolt life, seal life, sensor life etc. things that aren't obvious and can easily deny as substandard, this isn't public knowledge and couldn't be proved as a business ethic. They wouldn't and couldn't design defects to recall so the dealerships score, this is more about the throwaway motor as a whole having a shelf life. It doesn't make econonic sense to produce something that will last a lifetime, just look at washing machines now for instance, unless you spend a fortune on one you will be lucky to have one for 4 years.


This is how it is now, you here it all of the time on Dragons Den when someone goes in there with a quality product that they think will be a dead cert, and when the Dragons ask how long it will last they inventor proudly boasts years upon years, they get the "i'm out" on the basis it is unsustainable. They want turn around and although the very fabric of a vehicle will last years they gain the sustainability on the spare parts.

Having that edge now just maybe providing a product that just might outlast its competitor, and gaining that reputation as a better quality product but in fact just a wee bit better than them so gaining on the review ratings.

It's all a big game.

[Stock]

I recently got blamed for breaking the washing machine even though I have never used it. So I was told to fix it as it was making a loud noise drum bearing gone rang the appointed service guy 200 notes call out plus parts............ bollox I says rang around found a lad working out of a van who repaired it for €140 with a replacement drum.
I could have bought a a B++ rated machine for €200 but We've got a AA+ so it was cheaper to repair............

[Muz]

I recently got blamed for breaking the washing machine even though I have never used it. So I was told to fix it as it was making a loud noise drum bearing gone rang the appointed service guy 200 notes call out plus parts............ bollox I says rang around found a lad working out of a van who repaired it for €140 with a replacement drum.
I could have bought a a B++ rated machine for €200 but We've got a AA+ so it was cheaper to repair............

I have to say I repair all my own stuff ( yeah you knew that right ? ) and I use this company a lot http://www.espares.co.uk/ they are the dogs doo dahs and stuff can be repaired as cheep as chips ... I havent found anything they couldnt get ... like weird stuff, like a control board for an unkonwn built in dish washer

[Wee Jim]

I may add that it looks like I have a water leak now too!!

[Stock]

your washing machine Jim ????????????

[Wee Jim]

your washing machine Jim ????????????

No the digger! Water drops when engine is off and drops when the heater is on. Didn't seem to drop when engine was running. When squeezing the top hose the water disappears!