Starting and hydraulic issues today on Volvo EC15B

[Noel_ Colledge]

I have had a few problems today with my Volvo EC15B, they may be connected I don't know, can you help please.

The first relates to an issue with the engine cutting out. Looking through previous threads the symptoms are the same as described in Jackpreacher's post Volvo EC15B Engine Cutting out

1. The engine starts every time but cuts out immediately the key is released from the 'start' position.
2. The engine runs continuously if the key is held against the ignition spring in the 'start' position, as is mentioned in the workshop manual, but dies as soon as the LH console arm is lowered or if the key is released.

Muz suggested some solutions and I have tried the following

I have checked the wires to the ignition unit and the are fine, I have also removed the cut off solenoid and tested across a battery and the unit opens when energised (can this still be faulty it sounded like a good strong action). Not sure where the mentioned timer relay is so unable to check that element can you please advise.....

Anyway the machine decided to work fine after a few starts and work commenced for about an hour or so. I had to get down from the cab for a moment so lifted the right hand arm, but when I got back in, none of the hydraulics worked. The engine was still running at the time. I have no arm motion or travel. After a few moments I noticed a little smoke coming from under the seat panel so turned off and opened the door but could see nothing obvious. I then removed the flooring to investigate further and started the machine up again but could not replicate the smoke. I noted two fuses had blown, the 15 amp second from right as you look at it and the 5amp next to it. Replaced both but nothing changed. I do not have a wiring diagram so not sure what these are for or even relevant. Main fuses are OK.

Looking at the post by Simank about solenoid coils, the top of mine looks like it has melted a little also but not as much as that. Would that be the cause of the total hydraulic loss. Looks like there are 3 of these is that right?. They would be in about the right place from where I initially saw the smoke

How would I test these and can it be done without removing them?

Finally after running and stopping a few times to see what was happening the whole machine has decided not to start at all now. Battery is not flat, all start up lights come on. I have not tested the micro switches under the arms yet as I run out of energy and the will to proceed, but are these prone to fail and be causing all the above issues??

All help appreciated because as normal in these circumstances, the machine is in the most awkward place possible, half way through a job and laughing at me.

[v8druid]

bit surprised you've had no responses to this one

[Muz]

Right .. theres a lot going on there ... there are several solenoids that do several jobs, including switching between normal and double speed travel if you have it. I think you want to pull the ignition switch and have a look for loose connections, first then make sure all the earths are good after that. There are about 5 on the machine and their performance will impact the fault sensitivity of the control panel. More commonly though, are the Water temp thermistor and the oil pressure switch for failing 'closed' before they should causing engine shut down. If they fail early they cause a 'ground' which makes the panel pull the voltage to the cut off solenoid and stops the engine. Usually the panel will leave a red light at the object that caused the shut down, so watch for that Also .. the wiring to the fuel lift pump becomes hard and will chaff very quickly because its under the fuel tank and the diesel spillage makes the plastic wire casing hard and brittle, that will blow your fuses 10 a penny

[Mick-the-fitter]

Right .. theres a lot going on there ... there are several solenoids that do several jobs, including switching between normal and double speed travel if you have it. I think you want to pull the ignition switch and have a look for loose connections, first then make sure all the earths are good after that. There are about 5 on the machine and their performance will impact the fault sensitivity of the control panel. More commonly though, are the Water temp thermistor and the oil pressure switch for failing 'closed' before they should causing engine shut down. If they fail early they cause a 'ground' which makes the panel pull the voltage to the cut off solenoid and stops the engine. Usually the panel will leave a red light at the object that caused the shut down, so watch for that Also .. the wiring to the fuel lift pump becomes hard and will chaff very quickly because its under the fuel tank and the diesel spillage makes the plastic wire casing hard and brittle, that will blow your fuses 10 a penny

Yeh sounds about right, there is no holding current to the engine stop solenoid, this could be well due to either the 12 v supply from the ignition switch, or from the engine Ecu / module, which is in turn controlled by oil pressure switch, or engine temperature.

Mick

[Noel_ Colledge]

Hi guys

So far I can answer as follows.

I only have single speed travel so can rule that one out.

Ignition switch is fine externally connections are all good and sound with no corrosion showing around any of the connections

Oil pressure switch seems to be Ok, I did have an issue with this previously when it broke free but connection is fine now, so as far as I can tell so is the water temp sensor.

I have no warning lights staying on when the engine is running.

It does run better cold that's for sure and will try again tomorrow to see if any difference ( or movement)

Would any of the comment so far effect the fact the hydraulics do not work in any way??

[Mick-the-fitter]

Hi guys

So far I can answer as follows.

I only have single speed travel so can rule that one out.

Ignition switch is fine externally connections are all good and sound with no corrosion showing around any of the connections

Oil pressure switch seems to be Ok, I did have an issue with this previously when it broke free but connection is fine now, so as far as I can tell so is the water temp sensor.

I have no warning lights staying on when the engine is running.

It does run better cold that's for sure and will try again tomorrow to see if any difference ( or movement)

Would any of the comment so far effect the fact the hydraulics do not work in any way??

I don't know if you have check that the arm/deadman switch has a feed in and out but I would start with this and trace back to the supply, may be it is the same supply as the holding current for the fuel stop solenoid.

Mick

[Muz]

Yea theres a switch at the back of the left console which shuts off hydraulics, they made various versions of it, and they all failed at some point . If i were you i would disconnect the oil and water sensors for now to eliminate them. Make sure you seal off the loose terminals because if they ground, it will shut the engine down. The lights on the dash i was referring to only come on after shut down.

[Noel_ Colledge]

Ok so today I have done the following.
Checked both micro switches, both are running fine as far as I can tell. Free running on the roller wheel, shaft not bent no corrosion at all on either one, but sprayed up with WD40 anyway.

Had a look at the two coils on the hydraulics, got the top one off after a struggle, but the bottom one is on tight, there is evidence of a little melting on both on the top, but can't really see what this is, as all the ones I have seen are just square. Even so I have checked the continuity and get it on both at 0.6 Ohms. No idea if this is good or bad.

I did find that the Deutsch connector cables had melted together a little with bare wires so suspecting this is where my smoke came from, these have been re taped so should be good now.

I have power at the starter motor, power at the fuel Shut off solenoid and power at the fuel pump which seems to be running all the time when the ignition is on. All connections to the ignition unit are fine.

Oil and water temp sensors make no difference when disconnected.

I still have nothing when trying to start it goes through the motions, plug heaters come on and off fine, battery is still showing 12v.

I don't have a circuit diagram for the machine so no idea if there is another safety switch anywhere that is causing the issue, perhaps related to the hydraulic failure.

Run out of ideas now except maybe disconnecting the battery for a while in the universal turn it on and turn it off IT solution.

Failing that ???

[Noel_ Colledge]

Well got the answer now, not much feedback coming from the forum so had to get some external help.

For others that might have the same issues, it seems the bottom of the two hydraulic coils was shot. Had to get the big square block out to enable us to remove it as it had fused to the shaft.

[Muz]

Well got the answer now, not much feedback coming from the forum so had to get some external help.

For others that might have the same issues, it seems the bottom of the two hydraulic coils was shot. Had to get the big square block out to enable us to remove it as it had fused to the shaft.

Well I guess weve all been a bit busy at the day jobs !! ... You know the stuff that actually pays money

Id be a bit concerned that you might end up in the same boat after fitting a new solenoid, and they sure arent cheap .. so .. any ideas about why it overheated ?

[v8druid]

also difficult to offer help without any pix to look at ..... especially of melted solenoid coils ... had me stumped, but then I couldn't see anything !!

[Mattir]

Well got the answer now, not much feedback coming from the forum so had to get some external help.

For others that might have the same issues, it seems the bottom of the two hydraulic coils was shot. Had to get the big square block out to enable us to remove it as it had fused to the shaft.

You had blown fuses, melted wire insulation and that clearly indicates a fault at the end of that circuit.

Most likely the fault does not dissappear by only taping the wires.

I just wanted to point out that sometimes fault finding is really simple, especially in electrical circuits.

Happy that you solved the problem, sorry for being away in daily work .

I have the service manual, all the 600+ pages, and could look at that in case someone needs help later.

[Noel_ Colledge]

I would like to answer the questions that have come off my last remark.

I looked and waited for 6 days for some advice, yes Muz and Mattir we are all busy with the day jobs, unfortunately being self employed I could not carry out some of mine because my machine was not working. It's not that it was just tottering around in the back garden.
No one with any ideas posted anything on this forum in all that time?? Really

I would love to have posted some pictures Druid, but with less than 10 posts at the time this is not possible due to forum protocol I believe.

I was not expecting the solution to be resolved by taping wires Mattir, but when they are fused together by heat they are obviously shorting so need separating again so you can move on. These wires were as it happens coming from the faulty solenoid where I was heading myself.

They are expensive Muz which is why I was asking the question regarding them before I purchased and found I could have been wasting my money. I have little idea on hydraulics or the function of these components. I have more now thanks to my guy explaining their workings to me.

Bitch over, back catching up with the paid work

[Muz]

No one with any ideas posted anything on this forum in all that time?? Really

That may be true, but .. you were already getting pointed in the right direction from the dead mans switch control, and you identified yourself a melted coil and connectors at the other end of it. Everybody offers help here 'free', but we are not obliged to do it, or meet any ones timescale in doing so, in fact rule 1. of forum etiquette in this sticky, states exactly that.

http://www.plantandconstruction.co.u...or-new-members

So .. my original question, why did it happen ? One of my original suggestions was to check earth straps, (post#3) as they are important to each area of electrical operation have you done that ? .. or did your fitter suggest something else ?

You have full functionality of picture uploading after 3 days of membership and placing one post, hardly draconian. The reason its set that way is to cut down on spam posters. Even then there is a message on this thread
http://www.plantandconstruction.co.u...s-to-the-forum that tells you if you need faster access after I have validated you, to drop me a pm.

So a pic or two of these solenoids would be good, from what you say 2 are stacked on top of each other ?

[Mattir]

I would like to answer the questions that have come off my last remark.

I looked and waited for 6 days for some advice, yes Muz and Mattir we are all busy with the day jobs, unfortunately being self employed I could not carry out some of mine because my machine was not working. It's not that it was just tottering around in the back garden.

I was not expecting the solution to be resolved by taping wires Mattir, but when they are fused together by heat they are obviously shorting so need separating again so you can move on. These wires were as it happens coming from the faulty solenoid where I was heading myself

Noel_Colledge, would have tried to solve that issue that you had, but a bit limited with time ( daily work) and knowledge, since I have a fully functioning -15 and haven't troubleshooted it. Even though, you never known there's something broken. For those situations, any info or experience gained prior to the event might save a looot of time and money.

Been writing on another forum for 3 years with over 2000 posts, mostly about Hilux pickup truck.

I have some minor leak in the left hand joystick and another in hydraulics somewhere under the floor, but haven't had time to take look. I just washed the tube compartment with pressure washer and now its easier to see where the leak is.

happy excavating