Hanix 15b-2: Strange Tracking Issue

[Muz]

Now I see where you get your nomenclature from

[Muz]

Someone has obviously fitted a thumb at some point .. this maybe where your plumbing has gone awry

[v8druid]

Now I see where you get your nomenclature from

Someone has obviously fitted a thumb at some point .. this maybe where your plumbing has gone awry

only if it was a hydraulic thumb Muz

[mowgli]

OK back from holiday gonna have one last crack at this before getting some professional help

So managed to get hold of another two pressure test rigs so now i have them set up on all three pump ports...what i've managed to work out is that the stall happens when one of the pumps is dead ended and then i bring another into play, I think this is why is see the behavior with the breaker and the drives as both of these bring two pumps into play.

But seems to happen consistently with all services when more than one pump used:

So for example:

Example 1

I curl the bucket fully and hold it there
Port 1 : Pressure relief at 190 bar stable

I then swing the boom left as far as I can take it
Port 2 : Gets to about 100 bar then stall


Example 2

I open the arm fully and hold it there
Port 3 : Pressure relief at 170 bar stable

Curl the bucket
Port 1 : Gets to about 100 bar then stall.


Each port on its own seems to bring in its pressure relief valve its only when two come into play.

So stupid question no1 :)

Could it be anything to do with the flow volume not being able to be returned quickly enough rather than the valves not opening?

I'll get a video done as soon as this rain stops!!

[v8druid]

OK back from holiday gonna have one last crack at this before getting some professional help

So managed to get hold of another two pressure test rigs so now i have them set up on all three pump ports...what i've managed to work out is that the stall happens when one of the pumps is dead ended and then i bring another into play, I think this is why is see the behavior with the breaker and the drives as both of these bring two pumps into play.

But seems to happen consistently with all services when more than one pump used:

So for example:

Example 1

I curl the bucket fully and hold it there
Port 1 : Pressure relief at 190 bar stable

I then swing the boom left as far as I can take it
Port 2 : Gets to about 100 bar then stall


Example 2

I open the arm fully and hold it there
Port 3 : Pressure relief at 170 bar stable

Curl the bucket
Port 1 : Gets to about 100 bar then stall.


Each port on its own seems to bring in its pressure relief valve its only when two come into play.

So stupid question no1 :)

Could it be anything to do with the flow volume not being able to be returned quickly enough rather than the valves not opening?

I'll get a video done as soon as this rain stops!!

More likely to be a very tired engine, unable to cope with the power demand .... or insufficient fuel to provide full power on demand ... tired injector pump?

if you reverse the sequence of each of your examples, does it perform in the same manner - do the second ports introduced, relieve at the right setting and the introduction of the second stall out at 100-ish - if so I'd put bucks on the lack of power available to reach peak performance/pressure on both services, simultaneously

[mowgli]

Yeah druid every combination behaves the same...ie all ports 1,2,3 relieve at expected pressure when introduced alone, stall occurs when another port introduced.
Your suggestion of lack of power certainly could fit the bill as yesterday i reduced the relief pressure to 110 on ports and it could handle it.

Was gonna try replace hydraulic return filter didn't know whether that might help...but its gonna be a pain to do that a lot of hose disassembly to get it at it so rather rule out other possible causes first.

So back to the engine .......only reason i didn't think lack of fuel initially is the engine recovers almost instantly when i release the services, although I don't get much smoke at all from the exhaust.

Is there a way for me to pinpoint a tired injector or even the power output, is that just a case of getting a read on the rpm? Its a Mitsubishi L3E engine with 2500 hours on it.

Thanks for the help appreciate it....learned more from trying to fix this than i have from going to any training course :)

[ianoz]

If it is engine dying , check the fuel line banjo fittings ,some have filters in them,

[mowgli]

Also Druid should have said, i stalled it a couple of times yesterday afterwards it was difficult to re-start the engine....took several attempts to get it to start. Didn't happen with every stall but when it did happen it was very noticeable.

I checked that fuel the cut off solenoid wasn't activated and it did appear to be getting fuel as I opened the bleed valve on the injector pump and fuel was coming out but it took a while for me to get it going after stalling.

[mowgli]

ionoz,

Couldn't see any banjo fittings on lines....i removed the bleed screw from injector pump yesterday which looks like a banjo type screw but no filter in there.

I'll go through the fuel delivery again today double/triple check everything

Thanks!

[mowgli]

Here is a video of it happening apologies for poor visibility....been p**sing down for days here!

In the video i curl the bucket fully hold it there and then bring the arm in as far as I can you will hear it start to stall...I release the arm and you will hear it recover quickly.

I then do it again to stall and then restart.

Video Here

[v8druid]

hmmm ..... I'd be best guessing engine is tired and not making sufficient power to cope ..... or the injector pump is similarly tired and not allowing sufficient fuel to allow the motor to make peak power.

when you engage the tracking motors do you feather them in, or simply grab a handful and expect the engine to cope?

certainly when digging I see so many smaller machine op.s who constantly hold services against the stops, once reached, instead of releasing the service/operation and allowing the flow to go elsewhere, where it's needed.

Shouldn't really get to the point the RV is dumping with any op. ... one should've released that operation as it occurs, not wait for it to squeal and plead .... similarly in hard digging ... the machine has a finite capability and once it's reached, one should back off and have another bite ... holding it against the RV is not going to make it make any more power and simply remove/cancel out that amount of power available from the engine, for other services.

a lot of 'gutless' accusations leveled against machines are down to operating styles and finesse ..... the RVs are there to protect the systems, not to be used as operating limits. With the scenario you describe, yes the engine should be able to cope with everything against the RVs ....... but it obviously can't ... at 2500 hrs it should be able to though, so ..... investigations required as to why it doesn't

[mowgli]

With tracking i have been starting slow and then increasing until near stall then i need to release completely to recover, seems to be very consistent behaviour whether breaker, tracking or digging functions which i guess is somewhat positive

As you say I wouldn't expect it to be able to push through anything but it does seem to be lacking something!

[v8druid]

With tracking i have been starting slow and then increasing until near stall then i need to release completely to recover, seems to be very consistent behaviour whether breaker, tracking or digging functions which i guess is somewhat positive

As you say I wouldn't expect it to be able to push through anything but it does seem to be lacking something!

it's very odd for sure ???

[mowgli]

Latest

Was using today and low and behold managed to stall it as usual.

Now for the life of me i cant get it to restart....I can see fuel pumping out right up to fuel pump and I cracked open an injector a little I can see fuel coming out so I think fuel is getting to where it needs to be.

The stop solenoid appears to be releasing as expected, battery etc seems fine....

I'll leave it till tomorrow and try again..If I continue with it right now I'll just end up torching the bloody thing and that will be the end of it

[mowgli]

OK couldn't leave it managed to get it going again by bleeding at the fuel injection pump.which obviously suggest air in the system.

To Druids point yesterday on lack of power, can't help but feel this whole issue has still got something to do with fuel delivery or lack of it but I just can't put my finger on what it is.

Everything seems to work and push fuel as expected, one thought I had was if my 12v lift pump wasn't pumping enough fuel could that cause this, when I disconnect its lines it appears to be pumping fuel just don't know if its enough?

If anyone has any ideas on how I could test why I'm having bleed after these stalls please let me know...I'll try anything :)