Mitsubishi L3E problems

[richp999]

Ok ill whip the injectors out and drop some engine oil in to seal - do I just squirt it in ? will it move itself around the cylinder ?

I gave it a good coating when I changed the rings, although as you say its probably been washed away by now, its been started and turned over a *lot*.. Trouble is to test the pump/injectors I need to turn the engine over, which isnt ideal for my starter...
Trying to figure another way of testing the pump outside of the eninge...

Anyway I'll do oil trick and let you know how I get on.

I dont think i'm going to get too much further until I can confirm this pump/injectors are working properly.

Is the amount of fuel comming from the injectors/pump *that* critical ? And how do you adjust it ? there doesnt seem to be a way, other than the control rail on the IP pump...

Also anyone know a good source of IP pump and Injectors, in case I have to go that route ? (I've already sent diamond diesels an email, awaiting response!)

[Muz]

Ok ill whip the injectors out and drop some engine oil in to seal - do I just squirt it in ? will it move itself around the cylinder ?

I gave it a good coating when I changed the rings, although as you say its probably been washed away by now, its been started and turned over a *lot*.. Trouble is to test the pump/injectors I need to turn the engine over, which isnt ideal for my starter...
Trying to figure another way of testing the pump outside of the eninge...

Anyway I'll do oil trick and let you know how I get on.

I dont think i'm going to get too much further until I can confirm this pump/injectors are working properly.

Is the amount of fuel comming from the injectors/pump *that* critical ? And how do you adjust it ? there doesnt seem to be a way, other than the control rail on the IP pump...

Also anyone know a good source of IP pump and Injectors, in case I have to go that route ? (I've already sent diamond diesels an email, awaiting response!)

Ive already mentioned, its the height the pump sits at , in the engine casting body that controls the delivery amount, by way of shims ... the only other thing you can do is to get the pump spill tested, in practice it will be cheaper to buy a new pump I suspect, but in reality, I'd be surprised if its the pump, they are pretty bullet proof, but you never know ... Diamond are the right people to advise you

[richp999]

Might be getting closer, but still not really starting properly.
So I checked the ip pump first with my injector pressure tester, to see if the delivery valves would hold the 2000psi needed to
pop the injector, and they seemed ok.
So connected up all of the injectors, and they seem to spray ok, video attached.

Might be too much fuel going in here ??

So before I try the timing, I poured some oil in each cylinder, then refitted the injectors.

I disconnected the tie rod to the IP pump , and set it just under full fuel flow..
Turned it over it fired up ! But really did fire up, in clouds of smoke etc.!!

As I had disconnected the tie rod (and the stop valve, in an attempt to get it going) it was racing away, and I thought it
might explode.. Managed to push the stop valve in and stop engine.
So tried it again and wouldn't start this time..
Later I took the injectors out and put some oil in again, which after fitting got it to fire up as before, but same
situation with no tie rod on.
So it seems at the moment I can only get it to run after putting oil in the cylinders - which is a bit worrying as
ive changed the piston rings and the compression should be good enough..
Im wondering if the amount of fuel is too high , and is making it hard to get going, and washing the cylinders when it doesnt
start. It seems it'll start best when its just below the 'max' setting on the control rail on the pump.
I found I can adjust the stop (cut-out) valve in and out - it seems to give the control rail a max limit, so i have adjusted it
in a bit to reduce the max setting of the control rail ; ill give that a go tomorrow when I have some more battery.

Injectors:

Pump Pressure:

[Muz]

If the guvernor is disconnected from the rack bar on that pump, it will make the engine race if it fires up, sometimes this happens naturally with this engine, the small metal retainer comes off the bar and the engine takes off, a bit frightening if you are plodding away with it on a site ... (unless you are an Irish gentleman who expects an unfeasible work rate from a 1 tonner) so you shouldnt run it like that, I suspect though it was running on the oil in the bores. I've had some of mine do that just after an oil change ?

[v8druid]

tha's a lorrafuel coming out them injectors for such a little engine
as Muz says, it'll be firing on the oil in the bores initially, but should then run on fuel, assuming it's not getting so much it's flooding it .... i'd be trying a lot more controlled level of fueling it

Can't see why yours'd run on oil after an oil change Muz ????

[Muz]

Can't see why yours'd run on oil after an oil change Muz ????

Yes mate .. 20 years owning this product and I dont know the answer to that ? .. something gets into the bores through the rocker cover clearly .. beats me how .. engine runs fine before and thereafter but has a brief race after the change .. just lasts for 5 seconds

[v8druid]

Yes mate .. 20 years owning this product and I dont know the answer to that ? .. something gets into the bores through the rocker cover clearly .. beats me how .. engine runs fine before and thereafter but has a brief race after the change .. just lasts for 5 seconds

OK ..... having thought about it .... down the valve stems when the rocker cover is flooded with oil .... into the bores through any open valves and the closed ones'd have a puddle of oil sat on their heads, which enters the combustion chamber as it opens.
bet it knocks for a second or two too

if you refilled the sump with a litre oil syringe and a tube down a drain/oil return gallery, instead of flooding the rocker cover, it'd not happen
be interested to hear the results

[richp999]

tha's a lorrafuel coming out them injectors for such a little engine
as Muz says, it'll be firing on the oil in the bores initially, but should then run on fuel, assuming it's not getting so much it's flooding it .... i'd be trying a lot more controlled level of fueling it

Can't see why yours'd run on oil after an oil change Muz ????

Thanks, I'm going to try today by reducing the amount of fuel going into the injectors, see where I get.

[richp999]

Thanks for all the ideas and comments in trying to get this thing going!
Did some more messing around with the injectors and pump, tried moving the pump up and down with more/less shims.
Nothing really seeming to work.
Rechecked the compression via the injector hole, and via the glow plug hole, both went up over 410 psi after a couple
of cranks, so hopefully thats a good sign.
I noticed that after putting a bit of oil down the cylinder, putting injectors back in etc, turning the engine over it
sounded like it would fire a couple of times (maybe the oil burning off) then stop and just turn over
a couple of times, then fire again, then turn over a few times, fire once or twice, then turn over etc etc..
So I took of the cover from the IP pump so I could watch the IP fuel rail whilst it was starting and noticed a
problem.
On starting the glow plugs fire up, and the stop valve clicks in for 10 secs or so (cutting off the fuel), then clicks
out again.
The fuel rail is at this point all the way to the left (looking at the engine from the back), which is max fuel setting
for the start.
Turning it over, it kicks into life as if one cylinder or two are firing, then instantly stops. Whats happening is as soon
as the engine fires, it must spin more quickly and the fuel rail shoots over to the right, cutting all the fuel
off.
If I manually hold the rail just over halfway, the engine runs. If i slowly move the rail to the left it speeds up, and vice
versa.
If I let go, it shoots to the right and fuel cuts off.
So , looks like a problem with the governor ..
Muz pointed me to a thread with a similar issue so I'll have a read through that, and the manual and try and
work out how it functions.
Could be a setting, but seems a bit odd how it moves so quickly to the right with any kind of motion.
I might have not put back something correctly when I took the side off to check the timing, but I don't remember that.
Anyone seen this issue before?

[v8druid]

well you're getting somewhere Boyo ...... patience is a virtue

[richp999]

It Runs!

Firstly thanks to all who replied and helped out.. Stopped me either a) paying 800 for a pump i didnt need , or b) Giving up altogether...

So the short version is the governor was all over the place.. I suspect over the years as the compression dropped and people played with this to get the revs up and stop is stalling maybe..

I have pics etc and can post them if anyone is interested, but I just took the cover off the top of the governor, where the 'throttle' linkage is.

Having a prod around I noticed that something was odd - the mechanism that the throttle moves could never affect the governor at all - I suspect the spring was a little weak from being old, but even so it couldn't possibly have done anything.

I adjusted the Torque spring all the way out, which let the throttle affect the governor and all was good.. I think over the years people have wound this further and further in as the compression dropped, but in fact this did the opposite of helping..

Anyway I fiddled a bit and managed to find the lowest idle setting , and a high idle.. I'll check the RPM's are correct tomorrow, but its running nicely.

The power seems to be up nicely, and it'll idle at a low rpm, which it wouldn't do before. Starts almost instantly too.

The initial problem that started me messing with the engine was that the engine seemed low on power, and would stall if any service was moved to its extent.. This no longer happens, when moved to an extent the
MRV valve kicks in , I hear the engine labour a bit (governor working) and keeps running.

It tracks much better and pushes far more dirt, I can 'track spin' and it still doesn't stall - so much better than before.

So a few more little issues to sort out with this old digger and it'll be all sorted.

The cab won't swing now, which it did before. It's selected on an electronic switch on the left control, I suspect an electrical problem but I'll investigate tomorrow..

[v8druid]

It Runs!

Firstly thanks to all who replied and helped out.. Stopped me either a) paying 800 for a pump i didnt need , or b) Giving up altogether...

So the short version is the governor was all over the place.. I suspect over the years as the compression dropped and people played with this to get the revs up and stop is stalling maybe..

I have pics etc and can post them if anyone is interested, but I just took the cover off the top of the governor, where the 'throttle' linkage is.

Having a prod around I noticed that something was odd - the mechanism that the throttle moves could never affect the governor at all - I suspect the spring was a little weak from being old, but even so it couldn't possibly have done anything.

I adjusted the Torque spring all the way out, which let the throttle affect the governor and all was good.. I think over the years people have wound this further and further in as the compression dropped, but in fact this did the opposite of helping..

Anyway I fiddled a bit and managed to find the lowest idle setting , and a high idle.. I'll check the RPM's are correct tomorrow, but its running nicely.

The power seems to be up nicely, and it'll idle at a low rpm, which it wouldn't do before. Starts almost instantly too.

The initial problem that started me messing with the engine was that the engine seemed low on power, and would stall if any service was moved to its extent.. This no longer happens, when moved to an extent the
MRV valve kicks in , I hear the engine labour a bit (governor working) and keeps running.

It tracks much better and pushes far more dirt, I can 'track spin' and it still doesn't stall - so much better than before.

So a few more little issues to sort out with this old digger and it'll be all sorted.

The cab won't swing now, which it did before. It's selected on an electronic switch on the left control, I suspect an electrical problem but I'll investigate tomorrow..

yay !!

nice to hear you've sussed it Boyo .... I for one would like to see the pix

[richp999]

Torque Screw

Torque_Screw.jpg


Original Torque screw setting stopping throttle assembly moving the governor.

Original_Torque_Screw.jpg


Throttle arm had been bent also, meaning it didnt touch the screw that set the minimum idle


Throttle.jpg

[v8druid]

Torque Screw

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4330[/ATTACH]


Original Torque screw setting stopping throttle assembly moving the governor.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4329[/ATTACH]


Throttle arm had been bent also, meaning it didnt touch the screw that set the minimum idle


[ATTACH=CONFIG]4331[/ATTACH]

hats off to you for delving into that can of worms ...... needs must ... I suppose I'd have done it too

well done on resolving the issues

[Muz]

Yep .. as suspected, another guvernor problem... good to see it resolved

Theres a solenoid switch controls the slew to the offset ram, but the default position is to cab slew. SO if the cab aint slewing ?