Lifton LS850 wont drive uphill

[CaptLimey]

I had the same issue with my little Volvo EC15 [see this thread] The kit Muz had recommended had the test port with it, it was just a matter of releasing the original test port and installing the one from the kit and leaving it in............could possibly be the same for you....maybe Muz knows?

Hi Jack. Yes there was a 'spare' test port and I tried swapping it but it was a different thread to those on our pump. No hurry, the adaptor should arrive this week and we can then determine the pump pressure which will dictate our next step.

Regarding your question about finding the relief pressure ports - I don't really know what to look for or even if there is such a thing and studying the manual hasn't helped. However the manual does say quite clearly that the pressure cannot be adjusted.

There's a Brit guy locally who formally worked on offshore oil rig hydraulic systems and he's agreed to have a look once we can get the gauges connected.

Rgds CL.

[jackpreacher]

Regarding your question about finding the relief pressure ports - I don't really know what to look for or even if there is such a thing and studying the manual hasn't helped. However the manual does say quite clearly that the pressure cannot be adjusted.

Hi Capt'n,
does it say "cannot" or "should not" be adjusted?

[CaptLimey]

Hi Capt'n,
does it say "cannot" or "should not" be adjusted?

Hi Jack

It's a definate 'cannot'. There doesn't appear to be any option to adjust other than the option to relieve pressure if there is a need to tow the dumper a result of engine failure. In which case one can screw down the 'pressure limiting valves' which, I assume, allows the the fluid to free flow and permit the dumper to be towed without a hydraulic 'brake'. OR........are these the 'relief pressure ports' you were referring to?

Rgds CL

[jackpreacher]

.....are these the 'relief pressure ports' you were referring to?

Rgds CL

In my very limited experience screwing 'down' [tight....or clockwise] a relief valve increases the Hydraulic pressure - but I'd take advice from someone with far more experience and, in particular, experience with this machine. Best of luck!

[CaptLimey]

In my very limited experience screwing 'down' [tight....or clockwise] a relief valve increases the Hydraulic pressure - but I'd take advice from someone with far more experience and, in particular, experience with this machine. Best of luck!

Thanks Jack I might try that when I get the gauges connected to see if it makes any difference in the pressure reading.

From my reading of the manual I recall that it says to screw down the pressure relief valve screw until resistance is felt then screw another half turn allows the dumper to be towed without the drive motors 'braking' hydraulically. It may be that to partly screw down the valve might increase the pressure? All will be revealed when I get the gauges working.....I hope!

Rgds CL

[CaptLimey]

Update - it appears to have almost healed up!!

Well I finally got the adaptor to allow the new gauges to be connected. After the UK manufacturer I ordered it from screwd up and lost my order, I got one from the French agency - free of charge, saving me thirty quids!!! Now there's a first.

I butted the machine against a sturdy wall, connected the gauge to the forward test point, started the engine, put it in forward drive and pressed the pedal to the metal and ..........Hey Presto............ the gauge read 310 bar !!!
Then I realised I still had the handbrake on - bugger - I wondered why the wheels didn't try to spin. So I did it all again with the handbrake off and got the same result - 310 bar. It seems that the pump is doing what it should or almost.

So I tried another practical test. I filled the skip with 0-20mm mixed limestone gravel from the local quarry, I'm not sure what the weight was but the skip was brimmed and it must have been close to the design weight of 850 kilos. I drove it on the level and then up a slight incline - no problem with power and speed. Now fror the acid test - I drove it up a one in seven incline and whilst it struggled and crawled on the most steep stretch it made it without stopping. The engine was labouring but I had no wheel spin and it didn't stall. I re-tried it a couple of times with the same result.

So what does that tell me? Should it have handled the incline better? OR is it normal to strain a bit when climbing a 1 in 7 incline fully loaded? Could there be a flow rate problem (I don't have a flow meter) or could the 310 bar as opposed to the recommended 360 bar be the problem?

Muz how do your Wacker Neuson's handle a reasonable incline when fully loaded?

Any suggestions anybody?

Regards CL

[jackpreacher]

Viva la France..........well Captain, on my EC15B the difference between 150 bar and 175 bar (recomended setting) was remarkable. At 150 the travel motors were twice as good as they were at 85 bar, but once up to 175 they were just as much improved as the previous hike in pressure...........does that make sense

Anyway, if the service book says 360 then there's the problem...how do you adjust it?

[Muz]

Muz how do your Wacker Neuson's handle a reasonable incline when fully loaded?

They all slow down a wee bit .. and I'd expect that, when the load increases, but the way this thread started, yours got killed completely ? would you say yours was performing better since you started the thread ? .. I only ask because another poster has mentioned his LS750 seems to be working better once all the air has been expelled from his hydraulic system after a re-build (which makes sense). Its possible the guages arent 100% exact too, but at least you've eliminated the pump for the most part

[CaptLimey]

Viva la France..........well Captain, on my EC15B the difference between 150 bar and 175 bar (recomended setting) was remarkable. At 150 the travel motors were twice as good as they were at 85 bar, but once up to 175 they were just as much improved as the previous hike in pressure...........does that make sense

Anyway, if the service book says 360 then there's the problem...how do you adjust it?

Hi Jack
Yes higher pressure = higher performence makes perfect sense, I just wish we could get higher pressure from ours! Don't know about your EC15B but the manual for the Lifton, in relation to the pump output pressure, gives a definate 'cannot be adjusted'. However, as previously discussed, I'm unclear about what role the pressure relief ports/valves play, maybe tinkering with them, when my 'expert' friend can get over, will have some effect, we'll see?
Rgds CL

[CaptLimey]

They all slow down a wee bit .. and I'd expect that, when the load increases, but the way this thread started, yours got killed completely ? would you say yours was performing better since you started the thread ? .. I only ask because another poster has mentioned his LS750 seems to be working better once all the air has been expelled from his hydraulic system after a re-build (which makes sense). Its possible the guages arent 100% exact too, but at least you've eliminated the pump for the most part

Hi Muz
Yes, I think, as my last thread stated, it may have 'healed up' as it does indeed appear to be performing better.

As you suggest, like the LS 750, there may have been some air trapped in the system, even though I know Stevey put a lot of effort into purging it after re-build. Maybe over time, both standing and being driven, any trapped air has escaped and the pump is working better.
The company (MediMat, Toulouse Agency) that ripped us off for a pressure test and estimate for repair last October (716 euros!!), said that it was only putting out 200 bar and we needed a new pump, which they kindly offered to supply and fit for 6321 euros!!!! Either they were mistaken (?) and hoping to generate some work or the system has purged itself over time. I suspect the former but hope the latter.
Maybe continued use when the fine weather arrives (snow here today) will improve it's performance even more?

Thanks guys for all your interest and advice, keep it coming.

Rgds CL

P.S. We made a long and very critical complaint to the company's head office about the excessive amount charged by their local agency for the repair estimate. They had claimed eight hours work, plus sundries and VAT, for what we said should have taken no longer than two hours. Finally, after many letters and phone calls, realising we were not going to go away, they relented and refunded over 500 euros.

[CaptLimey]

Viva la France..........well Captain, on my EC15B the difference between 150 bar and 175 bar (recomended setting) was remarkable. At 150 the travel motors were twice as good as they were at 85 bar, but once up to 175 they were just as much improved as the previous hike in pressure...........does that make sense

Anyway, if the service book says 360 then there's the problem...how do you adjust it?

Hi again Jack
I've just perused your post on adjusting the pressure on your EC15B and there doesn't appear to be anything like that adjusting facility on the Lifton's A10VG 45 pump. There's only the 'high pressure limiting valve', on top of the pump with a locking nut and allen screw, (up and right of centre in the image) but the manual says it is just for relieving pressure to allow towing.
Rgds CL

[Muz]

I'd say that was a result on several fronts then captain? So we didn't get to the bottom of the reason for poor performance initially but you got a refund and have the satisfaction of knowing your pump is fine which was the major possible expense, suggested to you by some so called 'experts'

[jackpreacher]

I agree with Muz - it works now....result-o-magic
blimey Cap'tn, your hydraulic pump installation seems very clean......most impressed

[CaptLimey]

I agree with Muz - it works now....result-o-magic
blimey Cap'tn, your hydraulic pump installation seems very clean......most impressed

Thanks Jack - all down to Stevey who stripped the machine and blasted/resprayed/renovated the whole kit & caboodle.

Question for all:-

Now that we seem to have established that the pump is doing (almost) what it is supposed to, what can we check out next?

I seem to recall reading on another post that to jack all the wheels off the ground and run the machine in gear is a metod of determining whether the power is being evenly distributed. If we do that what should we look for and what are the symptoms of likely problems?

I suspect that uneven rotation speed between the four wheels will be an indicator of a problem, is that correct?
If so what are the likely causes/cures?

Thanks CL

[Muz]

Well .. I wouldnt be too sure that would yield anything, if its working at all, .. its working. There will be a load equalisation system of some sort to split the power, but its certainly beyond me to advise on it, and I would have nailed the usual suspects first as most likely causes, one of which you have eliminated... What is it you feel is the main problem, from here ? General lack of power ?

It would be tempting to rig up a test load between our Neusons and Thwaites dumpers to see which generates most pull ?