Lifton LS850 wont drive uphill

[Dan]

Thanks again. Really useful. I'm hoping a mate out here has a gauge, going to be a few days before I can connect with him though. If not i'll buy that one. At some stage there won't be much on the list left to tick off. My French vocabulary is on the up as a result of this anyway.

Stevey

lol , monsieur ..... ave vous les guages hydrolic ? mon lifton est fooked .......... sorry man I couldnt resist ...... we'll get the little beggar going hopefully ... bigger pics of the pump would help mate

[Stevey]

P1010892.jpgHows this little photo, any better? LOL btw , I do know some french expletives. I'll try "fooked" and see how it goes down. Attached photo is a result of lots of head scratching and down sizing. Spanners are easier.

Stevey

[Stevey]

Lifton LS 850

Hi Guys. Back again with the Lifton. Fell on the sword and had it pressure tested by "experts" in France. Apparently the motor is putting out 200 Bar whereas this should be 360 so technically it's f........k. A new hydraulic pump is going to kill me. I'm having a tentative look at reconditioning the pump. Any thoughts on where this can be done and probable cost. I've got by in the last few months by borrowing another dumper. Thanks for your interest and advice.

Stevey

[Muz]

Hi Guys. Back again with the Lifton. Fell on the sword and had it pressure tested by "experts" in France. Apparently the motor is putting out 200 Bar whereas this should be 360 so technically it's f........k. A new hydraulic pump is going to kill me. I'm having a tentative look at reconditioning the pump. Any thoughts on where this can be done and probable cost. I've got by in the last few months by borrowing another dumper. Thanks for your interest and advice.

Stevey

200 Bar is fine ! we established the operating pressure is 170 BAR earlier ... But you really need those guages to start fault diagnosis .. because you have to compare the front axle with the back at various points to see if and where there any differences. Its only by a process of elimination that you can work out whats gone wrong.

[Stevey]

200 Bar is fine ! we established the operating pressure is 170 BAR earlier ... But you really need those guages to start fault diagnosis .. because you have to compare the front axle with the back at various points to see if and where there any differences. Its only by a process of elimination that you can work out whats gone wrong.

Thanks for the reply. As ever language and the fact that the French love to rip off the "extremely rich" ex pats causes issues. I'm repeating their actual diagnosis. I suspect they haven't a clue. My time is always limited and I was hoping for a definitive diagnosis without me having to buy any more equipment.

Thanks again

[CaptLimey]

200 Bar is fine ! we established the operating pressure is 170 BAR earlier ... But you really need those guages to start fault diagnosis .. because you have to compare the front axle with the back at various points to see if and where there any differences. Its only by a process of elimination that you can work out whats gone wrong.

Hi Muz and thanks for your input.
In support of Stevey ( I should say that I'm family!) IF he were to 'get hold of' a set of gauges, what various points would he use to measure the relative pressures to judge whether the individual drives were receiving enough? AND what & how should he adjust to achieve balance even with the 'reduced' output from the pump suggested by the 'experts'? Any guidance will be very welcome.
Rgds CL

[Muz]

Hi Muz and thanks for your input.
In support of Stevey ( I should say that I'm family!) IF he were to 'get hold of' a set of gauges, what various points would he use to measure the relative pressures to judge whether the individual drives were receiving enough? AND what & how should he adjust to achieve balance even with the 'reduced' output from the pump suggested by the 'experts'? Any guidance will be very welcome.
Rgds CL

I have an operators manual that states the 170Bar working pressure .. now I'm going back on memory here .. but the adjusters Stevey altered right back at the start allow you to get the machine to 'free wheel' in the event of a problem elsewhere .. but .. their position is critical to getting normal flow, and IIRC if they are wrong the unit wont function.

Ive owned about 6 or 7 of these with no pump issues to date .. deduction would presume if the back axle is fine which was suggested, (although I dont know how that was concluded) then testing the front and fault finding the difference would be the best course of action

You would need to break into some service lines to the drives , with a guage and start comparing results. The awkward bit is having the fittings with your guages to allow you to do this. The set I suggested come with a good few, but in all likeliehood you would require a few more for some of the main feeds which are larger metric fittings.

I'll look out the manual again that we found earlier, and see what it says about those adjusters, but it was pretty basic IIRC

[CaptLimey]

Thanks again Muz for your continued support.
Any information you might be able to dredge up, no matter how basic, will be better than what we have at the moment - which is zilch!
Re the adjusters allowing the machine to freewheel, I did try to move it by pushing it with the engine not running and it wouldn't budge.
Re back axle being fine, I'm not sure that is entirely the case but what I can say is that it appears to work better than the front. We took the 850 to the (alleged) Lifton/Neuson service agent in Toulouse who diagnosed the need for a new hydraulic pump (six thousand pounds fitted!!!!!!!!!) as he found that the pressure produced was 200 bars when he claimed it should be 360 bars. (I think he was just trying to wind up some business in these hard economic times.) We politely declined his offer and went to recover the machine. As we were loading it on to my trailer it stalled on the steep ramps, the front right wheel locked and the rear right was spinning. We managed to get it aboard with the aid of the winch but it would not climb the ramps alone. It did seem to suggest that the rear axle was getting more power that the front and the lack of flow was causing the front wheels to lock. Stevie had previously played around with the adjustment of each axle with the machine jacked up but, in the absence of any instructions as to how to balance the two, he was not able to achieve anything notable. The machine works fine on a level surface but when it encounters an incline it just stops. We are torn between buying the gauges and attempting a fix ourselves, if we can get some guidance, or taking it to a recommended and hopefully more reputable service agent to test/adjust. Any wisdom (gems or otherwise) would be much appreciated.
Kind regards CL

[CaptLimey]

The saga continues!

Sure you know fella,... but it will be nearer 200 Bar


Had to pop the cover off one of our 1001's tday due to a beacon wire shorting on the chassis, and ours are Rexroth ones Stevey

Ive pointed to the two pressure control valves on one side of the pump , If you've moved these, this will cause your problem too, but it depends on what your pump looks like though ? I'd need to check the books to see what the settings are, or perhaps Muz knows ?

Dan and Muz thanks for the input about pressure and adjustment points. We've bought the guages that were recommended but they're in the UK and won't be shipped out to France for a while. Meanwhile, as Muz said we've been able to confirm that the pressure required is 170 bar for this early model, the later ones require 360. In anticipation of being able to test the pressure being delivered to the front and rear axles can you tell us where the guages should be connected and what pressure adjusters we should experiment with? Of the two that you (Dan) pointed to in your shots, which of these valves controls the pressure to where?

I've attached four shots of the pump including the data plate. It does appear to be exactly the same as the pump in your shots Dan. On the right side (as viewed by a seated operator facing forward) there appears to be three adjustment points, the two you indicated but in the centre of the last shot there's an additional threaded spindle and lock nut on the lower part of the pump. Is this relevant to the pressure flow to the front or rear axles?

Again thanks for your input. Rgds CL.

LiftonPumpDataWEB.jpgRightSideUpperAdjustWEB.jpgRightSideRearAdjustWEB.jpgRightSideLowerAdjustWEB.jpg

[Dan]

Dan and Muz thanks for the input about pressure and adjustment points. We've bought the guages that were recommended but they're in the UK and won't be shipped out to France for a while. Meanwhile, as Muz said we've been able to confirm that the pressure required is 170 bar for this early model, the later ones require 360. In anticipation of being able to test the pressure being delivered to the front and rear axles can you tell us where the guages should be connected and what pressure adjusters we should experiment with? Of the two that you (Dan) pointed to in your shots, which of these valves controls the pressure to where?

I've attached four shots of the pump including the data plate. It does appear to be exactly the same as the pump in your shots Dan. On the right side (as viewed by a seated operator facing forward) there appears to be three adjustment points, the two you indicated but in the centre of the last shot there's an additional threaded spindle and lock nut on the lower part of the pump. Is this relevant to the pressure flow to the front or rear axles?

Again thanks for your input. Rgds CL.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1125[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1126[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1127[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]1128[/ATTACH]

This is going to require some thought ... your 360 Bar pressure is a maximum burst pressure which to my mind is way above normal standards, its about 6000 psi and far too high for a normal hydraulic system

[CaptLimey]

Hydraulic working pressure

Hi Dan and thanks for your response.
The Neuson Lifton Manual copy we have gives the working pressures for the early and later models depending on their serial number as the attached image. Our Lifton 850 is the earlier model serial number BA 000334 so I'm assuming the data in the left column is relevant i.e. 170 bar, would you agree?
Sorry if the small size of the 'grabbed' image is a problem to read but I couldn't seem to emlarge it. I hope you can enlarge it by clicking on it. If you can't magnify it enough to read I'll try to attach a link to or PDF image of the whole manual?
Rgds CL

Lifton HydraulicPressure02.jpg

[Dan]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1130[/ATTACH]

No doubting that pic .......... we have 2 1001's ending 100176H and 79H and they are deffo quoted @ 170 Bar working pressures ?? .. but I do notice it says in the box above that the 'drive gear' Max pressures are 360 Bar for the 1001 ?

So I guess the manual is quite confusing because the machines are fitted with 2 pumps, a variable displacement that does the drives and a gear pump bolted on the front that does the steering , it may be that, that is the one rated to ~170BAR

I guess the only way to be sure is to get a guage in line to the drives, if I can do this on a normal working machine and it reads 360 then you might be onto something if yours doesent ..... Ive attached the 2 pages for the 'free wheeling' fix .. they may not be current for the 850 .. but TBH the pump looks similar ....... although looking at the pics they dont look massively helpful but if you have moved these then your drive pressures will be wrong IMO


001.jpgneuson 001.jpg

[CaptLimey]

Dan again I'm very grateful for your input and advice.
When we get the pressure guages out to France we'start investigating what pressure's coming out of where and re-post again for guidance.
Rgds CL.

[Muz]

Ive had a look at the book for the 1001 also, which I think the 850 resembles .. theres no mention of 360 BAR except when mentioning the drive motors 'max pressure' .. utter crap .. It states a 'working hydraulic pressure' of 170 BAR which I'm certain only refers to the bolt on gear pump which I think does 'ALL' the other hydraulics ie lift, tip,.. steering etc.

'Mon Dan we need to service this one fella and help the guys ?

[CaptLimey]

Hi again Muz and a happy new year.
Thanks also for your contined interest. I agree that the max working pressure for the later 1001 models appears to be claimed in the service manual as 360 bar. (see attachment excerpt Section 5 page 18) But I'm still hoping that the pressure for the older 850 model is as stated in the attachment of my earlier post as 170 bar (?) The pressure guages will reveal all (I hope!) when Stevie & I can get them over here. However IF we find that the pressure of the pump is up to scratch is there a mechanism that determines how much of it goes to the front axle and how much goes to the rear axle?
Kind regards CL

TravDriveTest.jpg