Volvo EC15B mini - engine removal & injection pump overhaul - plus ......

[ianoz]

Yes Jack . The hydraulic filter and strainer .
But Muz or one of the others is more experienced to Diagnose these type to promblems .

[Muz]

So the engine only gets loaded when you drop the left hand console ?

[jackpreacher]

So the engine only gets loaded when you drop the left hand console ?

It starts with the console up and then once the console is dropped into 'working' position there is a very slight dip in revs. I just tried to move him and he was reluctant but he moved. As soon as any pilot valves or travel levers are operated his revs stat to drop.
I haven't adjusted the throttle yet - with all the dismantling and refitting the throttle cable has lost it's tension, even so Doug used to be able to work and travel at low rpms before all this trouble.


Any ideas?

[jackpreacher]

I just moved Doug to a bit of shelter so I can put his counterweight back on. I had to take the counterweight off to access the third tray bolt [see earlier replies] as Doug was stuck in the mud at an odd angle.

I ran him up and he was on the brink of stalling whenever I operated a hydraulic control.
He improved when I did the following:
1. Ran him with no load and the left console raised until the engine was warm.
2. Lowered the left console [activating the hydraulics] and systematically loaded each ram both ways.
3. Operated the travel motors one after the other.

My thinking was that the Hydraulic Oil [HO] hadn't pumped completely through the lines and so there was still air to reduce efficiency.
Doug seemed to work better after working through the hydraulics for 5 minutes and I could then move him although he still wasn't working fantastically well.

[jackpreacher]

Suction Strainer

This is an excerpt from the manual. Does the Hydraulic fluid have to be drained to clean the suction filter? Terribly sorry if this is obvious........

HO Suction Strainer.pdf

[Muz]

Firstly .. all hydraulic systems need warmed to an optimum temperature before normal service can be delivered .. I have some kubotas that will stall when the oil is cold, but are fine when warmed up .. The EC15 isnt like that though.

It is possible the suction strainer is choked but very unlikely. A light will come on in the dash if it is.

It will be hard for you to set maximum revs on that machine without a strobe .. or hearing another one close by, but IIRC it should be around 1800 RPM for max revs, which to be honest is where I operate all my diggers, full revs . All the hydraulics can/should be capable of just as fine control at full, as, say ... half revs.

Make sure the breaker pedal isnt seized, and stuck with a service pulled on because that will labour the engine and steal oil from other circuits. Its a bi-directional pedal that can be set to one way, if the red lever under the seat is set to return oil direct to the tank, so check its centered properly


You said in an earlier post that the electric fuel lift pump wasnt running until you 'tapped' it .. that is a trick you can do with them because they are an oscillating magnet with flutter valves style pump. It can certainly get you out of a hole to get the machine running, but if it has stopped again, (which it will easily do if its done it once) the pressure will be low at the injection pump which will not help .. I take it the filters have been replaced ?

When you turn the ignition on you should be able to hear the lift pump ticking away after a 10 second timer delay switch, cuts it in .. its silent for the first few seconds therefor.

Basically if you pull the feed pipe off at the pump fuel should be spurting out of the pipe and inch or so, any less and somethings not right, either its drawing in air somewhere, the lift pump is down, the filter is clogged, or there is a restriction in the fuel tank.

There you go ... that should keep you busy

[jackpreacher]

That's good advice Muz, thanks again.

Doug drove into the garage this afternoon so I finally reattached his counterweight.
The fuel filter situation is unclear - I'll explain more on Friday which is the next day I get to check him over plus he has to actually do some work.

His performance improved the longer his engine ran. The hammer circuit leaching power on a random basis due to digger movement/travel over rough land sounds very feasible.

The IP is fine though as one final strip down showed everything is in place and the slight cam damage has not got any worse and doesn't appear to affect performance - the engine runs smoothly on all three cylinders.

Gaskets
I discarded all the old gaskets from the following components:

1. Air inlet manifold
2. Injection pump access panels(on the engine block) 2 off
3. IP controller access panel (above timing gear)


I used a silicone based head gasket sealant because I figured the components would require stripping and refitting numerous times so I didn't want to waste pre-cut gaskets.
So far the silicone gaskets have held true but I will refit the proper gaskets when I know that I won't be stripping the IP out again to inspect it.

TBC Friday.

[jackpreacher]

IP Problem & Pressure Testing

Just a thought - the problems I had with the IP caused power drop off but not total engine failure until the IP plungers just twisted and failed to deliver fuel to the injectors. I bought the machine off a chap who ran a plant hire business - not sure of what size plant, certainly a few mini diggers - and he sold the EC15B as it had it's door ripped off and a few little electrical jobs needing doing like the lights, fuel gauge, horn - all simple stuff. When I went to see the machine it started first time although it was a little smoky for 20 secs or so.

Even now, after all these problems I've had, I still feel that the machine was good purchase and that having to deal with the innards forced me to learn what to look for/maintain as I don't have to deal with engines/hydraulics on a regular basis.....I'm convinced that familiarity and practice makes all the difference to maintaining these machines, not theory, book learning, Wiki or Google.

Anyway, does anyone think that in order to disguise the engine power/IP problem the main Hydraulic relief pressure was lowered, resulting, in my case in poor travel performance? Would that something that is 'done' in the industry?

Just a thought.

[Stock]

Just a thought -

Anyway, does anyone think that in order to disguise the engine power/IP problem the main Hydraulic relief pressure was lowered, resulting, in my case in poor travel performance? Would that something that is 'done' in the industry?

Just a thought.

Quite possible, on a bad pump use a heavier oil, whining diff or gear box use grease or sawdust, and so on, and so on

[Muz]

Anyway, does anyone think that in order to disguise the engine power/IP problem the main Hydraulic relief pressure was lowered, resulting, in my case in poor travel performance? Would that something that is 'done' in the industry?

Just a thought.

All EC 15's go that way in time all by themselves, and the tracks seem to be the first thing you notice, where it wont sprag on concrete, or tar, or , one of mine wouldnt even turn on grass

[jackpreacher]

All EC 15's go that way in time all by themselves, and the tracks seem to be the first thing you notice, where it wont sprag on concrete, or tar, or , one of mine wouldnt even turn on grass

Yeah, I have to shuffle Doug around just to turn corners although he seems to have good breakout power, but WTHDIK






What The Hell Do I Know

[jackpreacher]

Quite possible, on a bad pump use a heavier oil, whining diff or gear box use grease or sawdust, and so on, and so on

My old LDV Pilot is so noisy from his diff (yes, he has a name....Dobbin. Don't ask..) that we wear ear defenders if he's empty. When he's loaded it's a bearable noise - just. It's been that way since 2007.

[jackpreacher]

Friday 9th November 2012

1. Started Doug - fine for a few minutes then he died.
2. The Fuel lift pump was not ticking [priming the fuel lines] ...and then it was after a jiggle of the wires.
3. Doug started again and ran fine then got lumpy and died. Intermittent behaviour thereafter.
4. Hydraulic performance improved over earlier in the week as the oil got hot.
5. Tested the lift pump pressure as Muz suggested - was excellent...when it worked.

Conclusion? The lift pump electrics or the pump itself has problems. Was the IP at fault then?...Yes, the bits in he sump and worn pins showed that.

Photos to follow this evening.

It's raining again but Doug is inside and knowing the fault rather than guessing is a good feeling.

TBC

[jackpreacher]

Fridays progress

...but at least Doug is out of the trench and inside...
Doug under cover.jpg

Firstly .. all hydraulic systems need warmed to an optimum temperature before normal service can be delivered .. I have some kubotas that will stall when the oil is cold, but are fine when warmed up .. The EC15 isnt like that though.

It is possible the suction strainer is choked but very unlikely. A light will come on in the dash if it is.

No warning light and the oil cooler radiator warms up.

Make sure the breaker pedal isnt seized, and stuck with a service pulled on because that will labour the engine and steal oil from other circuits. Its a bi-directional pedal that can be set to one way, if the red lever under the seat is set to return oil direct to the tank, so check its centered properly

It's working and isn't stuck or leaching hydraulic power.

You said in an earlier post that the electric fuel lift pump wasnt running until you 'tapped' it .. that is a trick you can do with them because they are an oscillating magnet with flutter valves style pump. It can certainly get you out of a hole to get the machine running, but if it has stopped again, (which it will easily do if its done it once) the pressure will be low at the injection pump which will not help .. I take it the filters have been replaced ?

This could be part of the current problem and a contributory factor in the IP failure. The FLP appears to have an intermittent electrical fault. Additionally on inspection of the fuel circuit diagram from Volvo Doug appears to missing his sediment bowl - see below:

EC15B Fuel Circuit.pdf
Item 23341 is the missing sediment filter/bowl.

In Doug the 12v Fuel Lift Pump [FLP] connects directly to the fuel filter. I don't know whether this sediment bowl is standard or optional equipment. I assume it's necessary.

My previous ambiguous response to Muz asking me if I had changed the filters is because I had replaced the fuel filter but not the sediment filter/bowl as there isn't one on Doug. The importance of clean fuel can never be over-stressed - see earlier in this thread
Fuel Lift Pump.jpg

Fuel Filter.jpg

Question
1. Muz, does your EC15 have the sediment bowl filter?

TBC on Tuesday

[Muz]

...but at least Doug is out of the trench and inside...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1007[/ATTACH]


No warning light and the oil cooler radiator warms up.


It's working and isn't stuck or leaching hydraulic power.



This could be part of the current problem and a contributory factor in the IP failure. The FLP appears to have an intermittent electrical fault. Additionally on inspection of the fuel circuit diagram from Volvo Doug appears to missing his sediment bowl - see below:

[ATTACH]1008[/ATTACH]
Item 23341 is the missing sediment filter/bowl.

In Doug the 12v Fuel Lift Pump [FLP] connects directly to the fuel filter. I don't know whether this sediment bowl is standard or optional equipment. I assume it's necessary.

My previous ambiguous response to Muz asking me if I had changed the filters is because I had replaced the fuel filter but not the sediment filter/bowl as there isn't one on Doug. The importance of clean fuel can never be over-stressed - see earlier in this thread
[ATTACH=CONFIG]1010[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1009[/ATTACH]

Question
1. Muz, does your EC15 have the sediment bowl filter?

TBC on Tuesday

I think the older ones did .. but I cant remember if the newer ones do ? dont think they do ?... That is the correct side entry/top exit fuel filter you are using as specified by Volvo and it has a little sediment catchment area in its base.

If your fuel tank is clean and your bulk supply is good I would'nt be too worried about a primary filter/gauze , although its always handy to have.

Not sure if you can repair those lift pumps btw, you might find it a better/more reliable fix to replace it ... but buy one from a kubota dealer .. its the same pump, but half the price or so ... you need to check the polarity of the feed though if your doing that, cos connecting them the wrong way fries 'em

Also .. theres no connection in your machines faults here, the lift pump is an entirely seperate issue, your injection pump had a mechanical fault, and its not uncommon to fix one problem just to find another, a bit like a machine that Just Continually Breaks