DruidFab VA-r

[v8druid]

Gonna have to bear with me on this one guys as there's a hell of a lot of it, but hopefully you'll enjoy 'the share'!

I had a need to be able to rotate my forks, that I had built for the 'Drema, (another thread perhaps), for a particular application, so set about constructing a rotary device to fit between my Miller hitch and the forks.

I had, 'stashed away', from way back; a rotator unit, that I'd acquired off the back of my scrappy's truck one day, which had been attached to an FLT carriage with a long 12ft spike stuck out of it, which someone had managed to snap!!!!!
(In hindsight I should've had the spike too !! IIRC it was 70mm and 'kin hard!!!!!)
They're used for handling rolls of carpet apparently?

Some pic.s below of a spike for attaching to forks and a rotator with a set of forks attached, can not find an image of exactly what I've just described, but I'm sure you get my drift!!

carpet spike.jpg rotating forks.jpg roto forks.jpg roto forks.2.jpg


So - the rotater - Many moons ago, in another life, I'd used said animal to make a bar bending machine for a large order, for 2000 x 20mm dia bar, odd leg staples for BWW for canal bank stabilisation, when I ran my fabrication business.

I don't have a pic of the actual staples, with odd legs of 1000mm / 600 mm with a 30 mm rad. bend. but there's a pic below of some shorter ones for a different job!

staple.jpg staples.jpg













I set about stripping the excess off the rotator, which had formed the bar bender unit.




Having sussed what needed to come off and set it out, in light of the heat from the gas axe, I reckoned it would be 'sensible' to get the 'ring-gear' out of harm's way and avoid cooking the seals on it.




Thought it a good idea too, to have a good look at it, before going to all the effort.






All looked fine, so the top plate came off, for a look at the pinion and ready to progress it.




Followed by the ring gear itself, after checking it for wear an' tear - no lift at all!! (But then it hadn't exactly had a hard life really!!)





Gas axe time!!!!








Well that slimmed it down a bit!!
Lot of head scratching went in to that bit, before 'sparking up' the torch!! Only had the one and didn't want any cock ups!!!!


Next up was some 20mm plates! .......




........... with some carefully blown 70mm holes .........



followed by ........

Assembly time!!








Having got it all positioned, tried and fine tuned/fettled, I got it all tacked up ..............




.................Enough to give it a trial fitting!!




The front pin is only a 65mm as I didn't at this time have any other spare 70mm pins

Had to keep the pins 'high' to avoid the hitch making contact with the pinion housing, between the brackets/cheeks.




Looked a pretty fair fit, so knocked out a few more gussets and stiffeners, assembled 'em up ........




.............. And got 'em in place!



All stitched ready for........


........... some very careful and planned sequential welding up, to stop the lil' bugger warping/twisting/generally getting out of shape!!

---

[Wee Jim]

Just awesome!!!

[Muz]

Cool stuff .. some accurate work there and pleased to see another stick user .. everyone around me is mig this and mig that .. but I find a stick very easy , effective and adaptable

[v8druid]

Just awesome!!!

Cheers Jim Boyo - there's a lot of this so you may just get a little jaded (but hopefully, I doubt it from the initial reaction!)

[v8druid]

Cool stuff .. some accurate work there and pleased to see another stick user .. everyone around me is mig this and mig that .. but I find a stick very easy , effective and adaptable

Learnt to stick when I was 5 Muz and been doin' it a long time!
Hobson's choice ATM and would be at it with the MIG in a flash mate (pardon the pun).
Soooo much quicker and the the penetration with the right set is just awesome.

Stick is OK, easier to use outdoors, which is where I currently have to work (no toy shed still) and will do the job, as long as yer's careful how you go about it. Very satisfying to lay down though

Spent many years stick welding, before eventually going over to MIGs for daily work and only resorted to stick when pushed/necessary.
As you say though, very adaptable and use it anywhere.

Using a lil' Esab Caddy inverter currently, as a source and it has to be said it's amazing.

caddy.jpg

Have had it years - bloody expensive in the days when I bought it, but can get 'em for around 200 quid now - got one for the BIL last year and he's chuffed to beans with it
The Caddy'll run a 3.25 all day and 4mm at about 60% duty cycle - from a 13 amp socket!!
It puts down a lovely weld too, being DC.

Kept a couple of MIGs from my shop, but 3 ph and haven't found a decent enough genny, at the right price yet to run 'em, yet.
Got a lil' 1 ph, 180 A mig which is ok for lil' bits 'n bobs but is hard pushed on full chat, to give adequate juice for bigger stuff.

Been considering one of these for a while ..............

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2512516263...84.m1436.l2649



......... and got to try one at a mate's fab shop a few weeks ago - bloody good it was too - he's slowly replacing all his rectifier units with 'em!

Inverter tech is the way to go, without doubt and cheap to run

Biggest thing with the MIG is knowing how to set it up, for what you want to do - once you have the drop on set up, they're a fab tool to use, for just about anything, from car wings to cutting edges and bucket repairs, but do not like drafts!!



Better go find a bit more for Jim an ' you then eh

[v8druid]

Still had/got it ? no slag inclusions in there !! Not done any welding in close to 3 years when I started on this



Stick's ok, but just so slooooooow and does put so much more heat into the job!! Hence the careful sequencing, for welding it all up!
Got there in the end and all nice and flat/square/true/etc..
Flipped it over, ready to refit the ring gear, after giving it all a damned good clean.







All went back together 'sweet as' and checked my setting out for the lower pick up cheeks, just to be sure, like !!




Before setting up the underside plate, securely clamped to 30mm of bench top with some 'proper' G clamps!!!!!




Got it all set up and clamped up before tacking up for assembly.




Followed by lots more - you guessed it - sequential weld up.




Bit extra under the pins, just to be sure, but it ain't coming off there!!
Left it overnight to cool down fully, before offering it up in the a.m., for a fit and re-assembling it back to the ring gear.




Mission accomplished!!



Knocked out 8 new pins from my bar of 70 mm BDMS and end plated 'em, as I was a few short for a try out!!













Sat her down at a convenient height to set about plumbing it up for a 'trial run'.........



.......planning to borrow the rotate circuit pipes off my grab, for now, with some strategically placed QCs to keep everything oil-tight, whilst they ?assisted the mission? !

HOWEVER!!!!

[v8druid]

As I was building the rotator I am thinking why not !!
Not a lot more effort required really ? just a bit more head scratching and few more plates, bits and pieces and it could be done!!

I will let the pix do the talking for a little while here guys!











Thought I had better stick a lift point on!!



The braces were to stop the ends pulling over in the weld up ? worked just fine, as usual.



Pivot bosses were aligned with a long 2 in. shaft. I had to tack two 2 in. pins together in a Vee block, as I did not have a piece of 2 in. to hand!!



Trial fit and set up the rotator shoe's bosses, to tack in situ, prior to weld up.



Seemed OK!



Pin out ready to separate for welding up the bosses.





Moment of truth !!!!
Re-assembly after welding everything solid ! and it is never a foregone conclusion!



Happily the pin went in as sweet as a nut. The long pin is only a temporary measure whilst assembling it and was to be replaced with two 45mm end pins, bushed in the 2in. CDS bosses with a JCB split spring steel bush, dipper end/tip links - perfect fit in the CDS, bolted to the outer frame and plenty of grease nipples!!

First try!







I had been aiming for max. VA with this and could well have reduced the build height by around 80mm if I had been content with 40-45 deg.s, but as a regular comment I see is - "wish I had more", I thought I ought to be aiming for more !! (and I have got some steep-ish banks I want to batter off too)







Obviously there was a lot more to do yet, but I had broken the back of the heavy bits and had pretty well gotten the geometry sussed in my head for the ram set up. It'll never be as pretty as the custom built, pre-formed forging offerings, but should stick the pace, hopefully

[v8druid]

My preliminary calculations were putting the ram stroke at circa 680 to 710/720mm to achieve the max either way!



I had considered using something along the lines of the set up below, but was confused as to why all 'the competition' use double acters, as I could see no logic in it, as each ram is acting against its opposite number and it is just more plumbing, with a double ram set up?
Same went for tilt grader buckets - why doubles if fitted with two rams?












My other major 'ponder' was whether to go for trunnion / gimbal mounted, or top mounted in a similar manner to some Scandy tilt graders - not as pretty, but a damned sight easier and cheaper. The jury was still out on this one!

(See above for some examples of the mount set ups)








Well - It went round and round













I had a couple of sources for getting some rams made up, with inquiries already made for both mount options and had the plumbing reasonably sorted in my head.
Flowfit do a nice line in 24V solenoid diverter valves and the rotate service more than adequately provided the oil supply, so as they say ? watch this space ..................!

[v8druid]

right - having got this far it was time to dream up a tilt mechanism for the VA-rotor and to suss the next step's geometry out - having got that done and sorted I had to now knock it all out










Damn I miss my workshop!!




And my MIGs!!!!!

I have been looking for a 3 phase genny to run the MIGs I cwtched aside, but not found one yet.!!










Got to stop those cheeks closing up when you're stick welding them on!!

Just by way of a bit of a tease........... full tilt to the left!




59 degrees



Curiously I could get 60 degs to the right, but having investigated, it was down to the original brackets I utilised being slightly different, side to side.
My originally hoped for 68 deg.s had to be forsaken a little, in favour of a slightly more sensible 60 to make other things achievable - all will be explained.

Being 'greedy' on the tilt (which is the biggest complaint I used to see posted on the UK forum I belong to - "not enough tilt") had its downsides when trying to achieve this with minimal outlay/not being able to find suitable multi-stage rams!!
To get from max. to min. tilt, left to right requires 645mm of rod stroke and to achieve this with single stage rams means just that.
I couldn't find anything aside from six or seven hundred mil stroke-ers, which are 910mm centres, closed!!
So you'll understand why it developed as it did. It could however be re-jigged, should some suitable multi-stage rams 'pop up', in the future, with very little effort, or alterations and would really 'make it'.

I'm pretty sure though that it'll do a reasonable job in the meantime!!

So.........
here are some more pix for you all with a few notations to each, by way of explanations as to what each one shows!!

Sussing geometry for the top cylinder mounts and clearances......
Full right



and full left



making sense of the dimensions and my thoughts!!

[v8druid]

the basic kit of bits required ........



less a few holes and some hot sticks!!!!!

Assembling the 'basic kit' after adding a few holes in suitable places and a bit more head scatching



well that is one. Now to make the other three to match it!!



well not quite actually - two handed pairs!!






Just to complicate it!! I had to achieve some degree of offset in them too, to accommodate the extra width of the the rod eye pick up brackets when they're closed !!

achieving pin alignment was crucial in the set up, which meant they were a bit of a handful to actually get set up just right, but Igot there!!



left side stitched up and on/in position






the right side got set up the same and wrestled into position.



Then it was lots of welding to firm it up!!




Until I ended up with this lump!!



having lifted it back onto the rotator, it was time to see if it would fit ....... without any fouling/f**k ups!!!!!!



which it did !!



now it was time to see if those nice new rams will fit too




150 psi of air power was a lot dryer and far more preferable for a bit of motion sussing than oil- plus, it wasn't going to break anything, if it wasn't all it was meant to be, in the clearances dept.



Having got both rams pinned in, it was time to see what we'd got.........
.........full left


and full right


This was the reason for the offset in the top pin bracketry assembly .......






I am going to have to be careful crowding, hence the reason for the desire for some multi-stage rams, to be able to reduce the need for that top pin height!!


However - it'll do for now as they say!!

[Muz]

Some lovely work there fella .. I was wondering how you were going to mount those tilt rams mindful that some makers use the lower section of the case of the ram its self as the mount point ... think I'd be worried about whacking them of something Ok for owner drivers of course

[Stock]

Excellent fabrication there Druid, I think it may prove challenging to use a bucket on the though................

Now if you changed the two rams to a rotary actuator like this you may have a more usable tool...............

[Muz]

Excellent fabrication there Druid, I think it may prove challenging to use a bucket on the though................

Now if you changed the two rams to a rotary actuator like this you may have a more usable tool...............

.. probably add £1k to the project

[Wee Jim]

Is it possible to get one of them that would fit my mini digger?

[Stock]

yes