DruidFab VA-r

[v8druid]

Right Stock ......
Tico 3 ton crane. 360 continuous rotation on a king post and central commutator, for oil flow.
Built in 2 ton winch, so's it can be used more like a conventional crane, with jib positioned and winch to do the lifting with !

GPO/telcom used to use 'em a lot and it took some finding.

Built onto a sub-frame, which is pinned to the dumper, using the same pin mounts as the skip and a couple of hooks under the chassis at t'other end.
Put the legs down and the boom tip on the deck, take the weight and pull the pins to drive out from under it.
Sub-frame also has fork slots to fit onto 4+ ton fork tines so's it can be used on forks too, suitably planted on the deck. Oil tank integral in the Tico's base, with feed/return ports to attach to a pump

Humperdumper also has a 2 ton fork mast, again pinned to existing skip pins and skip tip ram for tilting it. The mast came off an aisle stacker, so has a 1 metre scissor reach too .

You can actually fit both simultaneously to shift 'em about and could just about use the FLT mast with the Tico in place .......... but, the front tyres might complain!!

To get the mast off - tilt back, packer block under the mast base and tilt forward/upright to take the weight. Extend the scissor and forks and it will sit on the deck quite happily. Pull pins and drive away.

The skip is also setup with removable legs each side. Tip it and it actually touches the deck (handy for pushing stuff about with), fit the legs, pull the pins and drive away

Pity the dumper's such an old girl, but she always starts, fairplay to the Petter twin, which got rebuilt (well free-ed off and new shells) when I acquired her a good 23 years ago

I've currently got a pump problem where it's pushing the hydraulic into the motor sump and it needs to come off and be resealed.

made it a bigger oil tank for use with the FLT mast as the ram'll need a lot more than the existing tank carried, which aside from the skip tip ram is continuously recycled otherwise.

I also need to fit a second pump to run the Tico, as I don't think the existing one is up to the job/has enough flow, But may be wrong and can suss that when it's off for sealing.

Or..........

Just run the Tico with a small power-pack, which might be a better proposition as you wouldn't need to have that ol' Petter screaming in yer ears.

Any other Q.s on an e-postcard to the Druid

[v8druid]

Whilst I'd been building the VA-r I'd been agonising over how to get fluid power down through the lower section to provide hydraulic power for a hitch and any auxiliaries, especially as I had very little room on the centre line - about enough for 102mm diameter to be exact.

After much searching, I found a company called Roemheld, who make rotary couplings for carousel machining centres, which have hydraulic clamping of work pieces and obviously need to have a rotary coupling feeding the clamps. (see PDFs)

SWIFTSURE™ POWER WORKHOLDING, FITTINGS & ACCESSORIES, ROTARY COUPLINGS, Rotary Couplings (4 Pass.pdf
SWIFTSURE™ POWER WORKHOLDING, FITTINGS & ACCESSORIES, ROTARY COUPLINGS, Rotary Couplings (Four P.pdf
SWIFTSURE™ POWER WORKHOLDING, FITTINGS & ACCESSORIES, ROTARY COUPLINGS, Rotary Couplings (6 Pass.pdf
SWIFTSURE™ POWER WORKHOLDING, FITTINGS & ACCESSORIES, ROTARY COUPLINGS, Rotary Couplings (Six Pa.pdf

Better still, I'd found an outfit in America that dealt in used items (the new prices were horrific!)

The coupling was about 80 quid - the shipping however was another sixty, but ...... by the time customs lump on another 60% onto the total it became a very dear little unit!!!!!!




I was now agonising over whether to bite the bullet??

Thought I might just ring customs and ask 'em just exactly what they were going to levy on said item and then make an informed decision !!

Would really like to have found one of these .........



........ but could've lived with a 4 way if I absolutely had to!!!

Thought I Might drop the guys in the states an email, to see if they had any 6 way-ers, before finally deciding ...... (to bite the bullet, probably)!!

I just hate being ripped off, especially by HMRC!!!!! They'd had enough of a slice of the Druid of late at that time!!

[v8druid]

Picked the VA-r out from its resting place, ready to put all the bits on for a trip to Raglan and fast Fluids one Saturday morning - pipe time!!







Got the rams pinned in and greased up, Greased the centre pins, fitted the Cetops into spot and got the fittings into either end of the centre pins. All it needed now was some plumbing and we were ready for a trial run !!!!!







Fingers crossed!


Apologies for the abysmal pic quality - the camera was having an 'off day'!!

Did encounter a slight issue getting the rams into their respective brackets!!??
It appeared that either the end caps hadn't been welded on square or the pin holes were out of square in them - whatever it was, it put the bottom pins a 1/3rd of a bracket width out of line, with the ports facing inward which was what I wanted to try, for keeping the plumbing out of harm's way!!!!!!!!

Even tried swapping 'em side to side, but to no avail !!! Very annoying!!







had to think about this one for a while !!!!!!!

So it was back to plan A with the port orientation and just had to pipe it a bit more cleverly, to get everything where I want it.
It actually worked in my favor, as I had yet another re-think on routing and ended up with an absolute minimum pipe movement, which was great!!

Also meant I could solidly mount the tees to the tilt rams, as I had intended to have them float a little.

That was better for the plumbing down to the Cetops, from the upper section!



Got a response from Roemheld, on the rotary couplings with OMG!! prices for those units, new !!!!
(£1200+VAT for a 4 way/passage or £1390+VAT for a 6 way/passage)!!!!!!

So it was a 'bite the bullet' buy, on the s/hand ones I found and try to recoup the 'add on,s' with some creative thinking on the old tax return next time round!!!

Had to have something for the hitch (& aux. feeds) and doubted I'd find anything better, or smaller!!

So order it I did and waited to see just what it eventually tallied up to!

[v8druid]

With the awful weather we had at the time it was a good job I bagged the rams up, with the semi-open ports in them - couldn't find any 3/8" screw plugs in my stocks - typical.!!




thought it would be an idea to stitch the VA-r to a base plate for its trip so found a metre square 10mm plate, I had sat, hauled it out and slung it on the bench, closely followed by the VA-r in the pouring rain




Found an extension for the earth lead on the inverter (rod holder's long enough to reach from the safety and dryness of a box doorway) and welded the pick up cheeks to the plate, as a pro tem measure, for the trip.




DID NOT want it falling over, en route!!!!!!

I hate welding in the rain!!!!

Picked her up and swung her round to back the trailer under her ready to load.




Everything's twice as difficult in the pouring rain.
First priority on the next dry day is make the 'Drema's windscreen wipers work!!!!!!!!

It was quite a lump sat in a trailer and made the old suspension sit down a bit, (but that might have been the dipper as well perhaps)!!!




Parked up the 'Drema and then the car/trailer, tied it all down and disappeared into a box for the rest of the day!!!!!




It rained here like there would never be rain again! ALL DAY, that day !!!!!! I was like a drowned rat!!!!

[v8druid]

Forgot to say:
you're lucky there were any pix that day - as I said, I was like a drowned rat, by the time I'd finished pee-ing about that morning.........



......... and before anyone says WATERPROOFS!!
They don't like welding spatter!!
My old trusty sort of waterproof coat had to suffice that morning!
It's seen its fair share of spatter already!!

[Muz]

Forgot to say:
you're lucky there were any pix that day - as I said, I was like a drowned rat, by the time I'd finished pee-ing about that morning.........



......... and before anyone says WATERPROOFS!!
They don't like welding spatter!!
My old trusty sort of waterproof coat had to suffice that morning!
It's seen its fair share of spatter already!!

Ive lost count of the number of garments Ive used/abused .. when doing some welding .. mind setting me self on fire a few times wasnt a plan .. dont wear soft cotten whilst welding

[v8druid]

Ive lost count of the number of garments Ive used/abused .. when doing some welding .. mind setting me self on fire a few times wasnt a plan .. dont wear soft cotten whilst welding

or anything too oily or yer's up like a candle!!

[Stock]

Thanks for the post there herr Druid, ref the crane,Did you add any additional weight to it bum to allow the lift to work straight ahead??

Here are some pix from one I saw a while back...........

[v8druid]

Thanks for the post there herr Druid, ref the crane,Did you add any additional weight to it bum to allow the lift to work straight ahead??

Here are some pix from one I saw a while back...........

Looks a handy tool that Stock
Great minds eh?

I've a 1200kg concrete block that I was gonna rig to pin to the hitch for a bit of counterbalance, if required and had considered some 'saddle bags' to hang over the legs too, once extended, if required!

[v8druid]

I had two more bits left to make for it, apart from creating a shield for the Cetops and fitting a quickie of some description to the underside.

Needed to make two rod stops for the outer ends of the ram rods.

With a rod at full extension for tilt its opposite number still had 60mm of return travel available (I needed 640 travel and could only get 700s) so a stopper/limiter is required, between the rod eye and the cylinder end cap, rather than have it trying to bend the slew ring mount plate, (which it could probably do with ease), it needed to come up against a solid stop.

I intended to make 'em up in one piece and slit 'em, then clamp them, or stitch them back together, over the rods.
Really don't want to strip the cylinders just for that!!!!!

That was a job for a dry day though and I just had to be very gentle on the try out, if they were not on there before that happened!!

Well it was a 'full on' morning that day!
Arrived just in time to miss the bacon rolls and see them polish off the last morcels!!

From there on in though it was non stop plumbing, with some 'on the hoof' re-thinking, here and there, to ensure enough room was left for the Roemheld rotary coupling, when it arrived!!
Think we managed it - just

A second re-wire of the loom was 'on the cards', but had to wait until I had all the pipes secured in their final resting places to be sure whether it was going be required or not.
There was not a lot of room in there!!!!!!!!

Afraid I didn't get many pix, as I was a tad busy routing and sussing whilst Marty made it happen with the crimper.

Main feed/return went in as planned in 1/2", no sweat.





Motor pipes went similarly well and were the last things to juggle in, as they are all fixed position hoses - where they are is where they had to go - end of.

The VA ram pipes were another matter.

Had to swap Cetop choice for their actuation, as where I'd originally planned just would not have left enough space for the rotary - surprising how quickly a little space fills up with rubber and ferrules !

I was pretty certain the final choice was going to work OK though.

Glad I welded the VA-r to that plate though -it meant we could push it about safely and relatively easily (with both of us grunting at it, like rutting stags)!!




It stayed on there until I've had all the pipes exactly where I wanted them and secured !! Clamped to the bench it was going to go nowhere at full tilt !

Didn't get from Raglan until after half one and got collared to pick up Pam, her son and her DIL, who were home for the weekend and had been out walking - left the car miles away and could I come an' pick 'em up!!

Dropped them and the trailer off at the house and then had to take Josh back to pick up his car from where they'd left it!!!!!!!

The sun was out, daylight was burning and I was playing taxis

Then I discovered/was told that Josh wanted to service his car when we got back!! (which meant I was going to service his car)!!

Hadn't been back ten minutes and having a sarny when some friends arrived.

He's out with us while his missus and M.I.L. are ensconced with Pam and D.I.L. drinking tea and yapping!!!!!!

Lifted the VA-r out the trailer and slung it on the bench, parked trailer and car out of the way and turned my attention to the boy's C2!


So - find ramps, (from where I'd tucked 'em away two months ago during my big tidy up, when it was sunny and dry !! (it does happen here sometimes
Set them up to cope with the very low valence on his C2 ......... put the front back on C2 after he managed to rip it off on the ramps - set them up again ......... put front back on AGAIN - set 'em up a third time and managed to get on with the front intact!!
Should've just put the long forks on the 'Drema and picked the damned thing up!!!!!!!!!!!

By the time we (I) had finished it was dark and pigging raining again!!!!

So, not a lot more got done on the VA-r front that day!!!!!!!!

Watch this space..............................

[v8druid]

Every time I looked at it I could see yet something else to do/needed doing/altering/mod-ing/something else to ponder on to get it right/as I wanted it/as it needed to be, or something more to niggle my grey matter!!!

The tees were going to stretch my patience to get them right/where I wanted/needed them to be!!

Still, it was just a case of, start from the beginning and work forward on it. Thought I may have to strip it, AGAIN, to get at it and fix 'em in the right spot!!

C'est la vie, I suppose, when you're creating

So for now, I'll just bore you with some more pix of just how tight it all was - bear in mind that I'd yet to get the Roemheld in there too and another 4 pipes!!!!!!!

























And finally one of the tilt ram plumbing. Lots of fixings, clamps, etc. to come yet, but I'm sure you'll get the idea




This is where they're intended to be ......roughly



More anon - watch this space.....................

[v8druid]

After spending a few minutes reviewing my thoughts on it, the loom was out on the bench, heading for yet another re-working - Rubbolite 8 way waterproof junction box ordered for the purposes of, after failing to find one locally, ringing around!!
Then needed some nice 'proper' rubber cable to make the flying leads with now.

It was just too much in the way as it was !!!

Put an anti wear edge in one of the pin holes I'd routed the motor pipes through and there was a dose of spiral wrap en route for all the 1/4 hoses, ordered off ebay.

Struggled to get a handle on where and how to fix the VA ram tees with it upright and eventually tilted it over, after clamping it to the bench, for a better suss, which made the world of difference - we ain't built for working/thinking upside-down!!




Re-routed the motor pipes slightly, to get 'em out the way of the VA tee feed pipes and juggled them about a bit too. Only subtle changes, but made quite a difference. May have to get the tee feeds shortened up a bit, but couldn't say for sure, until I could try it from full left to full right tilt, with the tees solidly fixed.

Got a handle on that too - piece of 12mm bar welded to each of them, which I can then fix to the underside of the upper section, to' 'stand them off' the underside face, at differing levels, to clear each other's pipes.

Managed to get the centre points of 'em pretty well marked up, with a deffo position, so I drilled a 12mm hole on centre, for each of 'em and then fed their stand off legs through the plate and welded 'em from above - easy to get back off and no risk to the fittings, Cetops, or the hoses from a stray arc or, spatter.

Can't believe how long these fiddlies take to suss / sort out!!




Gotta get this bit right to get the Roemheld in there!!!! - itwastight !!!!

cut some mount pins for the VA tees and stuck them on to them ......



Transferred the peg hole marks from the underside to the top of the top mount plate and drilled them.
Set them out AGAIN and drilled them a second time - first ones were a complete f**k up!!!!!!
Like I said before, we ain't built for working upside down, stood up. ....... Had better days!!



Anyway, loose juggled them all back into their respective spots for a trial fit



Seemed ok, after a damned good suss from every direction .....



........ stripped it all again and set the pins in position to weld them in place!

Marked a centre line on the spigots to get them running centre, 'cos trying to get them right, with your head upside down is a non starter, from underneath, set them level and barrel welded them into the upper section.



Had to tweek the one compact elbow, having learnt that until they've been pressurised a bit, they're just about turn-able in the ferrules helped to get it all right - really handy tip from Marty at FFs that was.




Spiral wrapped all the upper plumbing and got it all back in and dogged up underneath.




followed by the top ends into position.

[v8druid]

Next on the fitting list was either some 'P' clips, for holding them put, or some clamp plates, strategically positioned to grip them in spot, or a combination of both.

had to have a think about clamping the pipes to the rams but eventually found some nice stainless steel ties for the job

Then I had to re-wire the loom next - again!

Also needed to tip her over either way, to see how the tee feed pipes fare underneath - was still considering having to get them shortened up a couple of inches, but really needed a try out at full tilt to suss that!!

Looked good for enough room for the Roemheld too!! Would have been nice if that had turned up a bit sooner than it did !!!!!!!

Finished the tidying and thought I'd whip the motor pipes off the VA to wrap 'em, before turning my attentions to the leccy spaghetti !!







Decided where to park the Rubbolite 8 way junction box, when it arrived, after much deliberation/trial/shuffling it about, measured up the required wire runs to all the various spots (plus a bit) and decided just how they were going to get there. Then disappeared into my tool box for the rest of the day to make it happen. ( My 'tool box' is one of 3 x 40 ft twist lock shipping containers, I have here - see a.n.other thread for the story of how they came home ) http://www.plantandconstruction.co.u...various-nature!! post #7

Finished it off, got it mounted up and routed into spot.
Oh and put the plug on!!


Just had to decide then, whether to shorten those Tee feed pipes, or not, with a full tilt from side to side to see how they behaved and .............. I thought.................. it may just ........... be ready ............... for ........... some oil !!!!!!
(I hope!!!!!)



Apart from fitting a hitch and a Roemheld it'll be there!!

Aside from the actual fitting and head scratching to achieve that, oil-wise, both of those just required the removal of two plug caps from the Cetop manifold and a couple of pipes to join them in - thought I could cope with a small spill for those!!

[v8druid]

Finished off the loom with some new bits.

The safest place I reckoned to park it was on the top of the ring gear's spigot drive housing and under the 'P' input plumbing.
So whipped the cover plate off, after marking up the position, drilled and tapped two 5mm screw holes to fix the Rubbolite to and screwed two studs in from the underside.
Fixed the junction box to the studs and sealed it all up ready to go back on.




Had to pull the 'P' swivel unit out of the pin to get the lil' bugger back in though.




Put the 'P' feed back in




and then routed all the new wiring into spot.




Got to say, it was worth the two odd quid a metre for the extra flexible, oil resistant rubber cable, but it was so soft, flexible and fine, I had to tin every end that was getting screwed into a connector, which was all of 'em!

Considered putting some small spiral wrap on some of 'em, where they're flying, for a bit of protection from any chafing at a later date.

I was a lot happier with this loom though!






Routed the seven core up the VA ram Tee feeds to get it up to the upper section, with the only movement being at the base, which should be the 'de minimis' point.




and then out along a ram feed pipe to the outside of the upper section.




Not entirely convinced, (in my own mind), that the seven core is going to be long enough! (Which is annoying!!!!)
A trial pick up will soon tell, before I fit the plug!!

Just had to fix those VA ram pipes in place, on the ram brackets, etc., ( and had had no suggestions from anyone on the UK forum as yet on clamps for attaching 'em to the ram cylinders)- Thought I'd go with some large cable ties 'pro tem' and see what I could find for a more permanent solution on the ram cylinders.

I thought it prudent to add some extra wear/abrasion protection to the motor feed pipes, where they run over the edge of the ring gear spigot housing - its an edge and they're tight on it.
Double wound a strip of 'door curtain' round the pair and cable tied it in place.




What the hell did we do before cable/zip ties were introduced/invented?

Anyone remember?
Guessing lots of tape, or wire - Anyone old enough to remember the old fabric insulation tape?
Jeez was that ever sticky, with a bit of oil, or spirit on it!!!!!
Took forever to get off yer fingers - it stayed put though - 'til it dried out in a few years time!!

I might just still have a roll of that somewhere!!!!!!!!!

[Muz]

What the hell did we do before cable/zip ties were introduced/invented?

Anyone remember?

The answer is .. we didnt do projects like this that needed 'em before now .... looks like its verging on robotics .. I'll have to re read that last set of posts about 4 times I think to take it all in

Why do you need all those solenoids down there ... your Hydrema looks to have a multitude of services in the cab (you've probably explained it and Ive missed it?)